Stahl-Tek Vekian Opus DAC - Anyone heard it?

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi. I have heard the Vekian DAC (non-Opus version) last year, but not in a system i knew intimately. And i only had a couple of hours...not long-term listening. I was very, very impressed...the Vekian (non-Opus) is the only SOTA DAC i've heard that is making me consider a change up from my second-hand Zanden DAC which i've enjoyed for 5 years...and could easily go 3+ years more without thinking twice.

i've not heard the Vekian Opus DAC, and i'd appreciate anyone's guidance on the Vekian Opus DAC if they've heard it. I think all the 'basics' are there in terms of long-term viability, hi-res, every digital input/output, and its noise floor/detailing are stunning and match the DCS Scarlatti imho. It's particularly about the purity of tonality that i would appreciate any guidance...this is my first focus in digital, and my Zanden has kept me happy all these years. Thanks!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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So I have agreed the sale of the last of my old equipment for cash...assuming the cash arrives this coming week, then back to my 2 digital options:

Option 1. Keep my beloved Zanden DAC...which has held me for 5 straight years without ever thinking about an upgrade...and get a second-hand Zanden Transport. Long live Zanden.

Pros: my favorite digital voice...over DCS SCarlatti, Emm CDSA, Esoteric X-01SE, Wadia 7, ARC CD7, et al
Pros: i get the universally acclaimed 'synergy' of the Transport i2s to the DAC...i use an Oppo transport today.
Pros: good inputs (AES, BNC, i2s, RCA) for servers someday
Cons: 16/44 only
Mitigant: Zanden could upgrade it to 24/96...but they said the 16/44 performance wont be as good...maybe wait til Zanden figures out a better hi-res upgrade?

2. Trade the cash plus my Zanden DAC for Stahl-Tek Vekian DAC (second-hand)

Pros: the only DAC i have heard which ever tempted me to 'upgrade'
Pros: compared to Zanden, it has far, far, far superior detail, depth, lower noise floor, but also extremely good coherence which is where the Zanden has held me for these 5 years (i strongly prefered Stahl-Tek coherence/'flow' to DCS Scarlatti which was otherwise the only DAC to match the Stahl-Tek in extraodinary detail, attack, low noise floor)
Pros: 24bit/382hz...so definitive long-term viability
Pros: Good inputs (i2s, AES, BNC, USB)

Cons: Will have to upgrade Transport another day...keep my Oppo for now
Mitigant: servers will have improved in next 2 years or so, or just get the Stahl-Tek transport someday on second-hand market

Both good options...particularly if Zanden will allow a hi-res upgrade...any thoughts? I have heard/read six people speak about Stahl-Tek...and all of them have used the same comment surprisingly...'the closest digital piece to analogue' they have ever heard. Not 'the most detailed, the most dynamic...'...but 'the closest to vinyl'...this is the very same comment people made about Zanden when they first came out 7-8 years ago.

Anyone out there with any thoughts...heard the Stahl-Tek? Thanks!
 

Imperial

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Mar 6, 2012
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Hi.
I'm sure you've read this passage many times over already, but why not read it again.
Linnman, of 6moons, wrote thusly..
"The natural tone of Zanden's Model 5000s seems to arise from the mellow nature of its tubes. Yamada-San ingeniously complemented this nature with his modern circuitry to achieve the desired outcome. The Vekian built upon this foundation without resorting to tubes and filled out everything with even more color. I'm certain that diehard analog lovers will never tolerate violin playback in the digital domain though they might accept piano. The Vekian's digital ways with violins thus came as a personal shock, being warm but very clear and detailed. The burnished beauty of tone was not achieved by artificial smoothing but rather, by sharing deep insights into the tensile strength of the bow work. I heard no high-frequency compression or attenuation in either energy or extension."

This was written about the non I2s version...
--
--
The new one, does have a I2s input, and Stahl-Tek just released a computer interface, that does output I2S, I believe that they are not charging and arm and a leg for that one either..
They do have platter transports that are not cheap, granted..

I'll have no say in your decision, either way, but I hope you do choose a good path! :)

Imperial
 

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
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Any update in relation to the Kalista Ref transport we had discussed earlier in the year, did you actually get it and if so your thoughts.

Stakl-Tek was actually on my list but just did not happen.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Any update in relation to the Kalista Ref transport we had discussed earlier in the year, did you actually get it and if so your thoughts.

Stakl-Tek was actually on my list but just did not happen.

Hi Dev. I did have a chance to hear Kalista Ref Transport...brilliant but just plain too expensive even at the steep discount. A nice learning experience...that's all. Its 2x the cost of a Zanden Transport...and i would not even get the Zanden transport if it were not for the fact that i was just about doing a 'cashless trade' using my old pre/amp. Same with the Stahl-Tek (used). Anything above that threshold is cash, and i am not prepared to spend it. Cashless or near-cashless is fine.

Have you spoken with anyone you trust about Stahl-Tek? Thanks for passing along any feedback.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
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Hi.
I'm sure you've read this passage many times over already, but why not read it again.
Linnman, of 6moons, wrote thusly..
"The natural tone of Zanden's Model 5000s seems to arise from the mellow nature of its tubes. Yamada-San ingeniously complemented this nature with his modern circuitry to achieve the desired outcome. The Vekian built upon this foundation without resorting to tubes and filled out everything with even more color. I'm certain that diehard analog lovers will never tolerate violin playback in the digital domain though they might accept piano. The Vekian's digital ways with violins thus came as a personal shock, being warm but very clear and detailed. The burnished beauty of tone was not achieved by artificial smoothing but rather, by sharing deep insights into the tensile strength of the bow work. I heard no high-frequency compression or attenuation in either energy or extension."

This was written about the non I2s version...
--
--
The new one, does have a I2s input, and Stahl-Tek just released a computer interface, that does output I2S, I believe that they are not charging and arm and a leg for that one either..
They do have platter transports that are not cheap, granted..

I'll have no say in your decision, either way, but I hope you do choose a good path! :)

Imperial

Thanks, Imperial...yes, i have read and re-read that...and i am glad you printed it here...crystallizes my main query -- tonality. The Zanden's primary strength is its beautiful tonality, and the second is its coherence of presentation which (depending on your priorities) makes it easy to listen to music. It is no longer the most detailed nor the quietest...but i can live with that.

What i believe the Stahl-Tek to offer is comparable tonality, coherence...with the detail, low noise floor and dynamics of a new-tech, sota digital system (like DCS Scarlatti)...quite a feat. Question of course is do they succeed? Long-term listening is the only way i can think of to determine this...but any thoughts from those who've heard it would be appreciated.
 

docvale

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
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Lloyd,

Have you tried the Stahl-Tek in your system or in a showroom?

If you're convinced it could outperform your current DAC (and you feel you want to upgrade), I'd go for it rather than buying a super-expensive transport. But I have to say I have a bias in favor of computer based systems...
 

Emre Üçöz

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2011
161
1
925
Istanbul
I'd go for it rather than buying a super-expensive transport.

I second to what Valerio says, I will keep the Zanden Dac and go for a Esoteric P-02 transport.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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I second to what Valerio says, I will keep the Zanden Dac and go for a Esoteric P-02 transport.

Thanks, Emre. Both are good options...the reason i may go for Stahl-Tek DAC...is because i think it probably has a better interface with servers...and also there is a Stahl-Tek Transport!!! ;)

However, i think if i ended up with the Zanden Transport...i would probably be very, very happy. Both good options!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Lloyd,

Have you tried the Stahl-Tek in your system or in a showroom?

If you're convinced it could outperform your current DAC (and you feel you want to upgrade), I'd go for it rather than buying a super-expensive transport. But I have to say I have a bias in favor of computer based systems...
Thanks, Valerio. I take your point...and i think STahl-Tek has potentially better jitter-rejection and better computer interface (including apparently a well-conceived USB input).
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
5,158
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Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
Thanks, Valerio. I take your point...and i think STahl-Tek has potentially better jitter-rejection and better computer interface (including apparently a well-conceived USB input).

And, downloads are the future (already here) of digital music distribution. You'd be preparing for the new age, as well as getting an incredible DAC.

Lee
 

Emre Üçöz

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Aug 1, 2011
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
14,411
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Thanks, Lee and Emre. Pros and cons to both options. will post when i've made my decision. ;)
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
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Lloyd thinking this through a bit more the DAC should take priority as these days margin for improvements/functionality are smaller for transport.
I am basing this on the assumption one will be looking to definitely upgrade their DAC in the next 2 years.

As an interim solution for the transport as you mention there is the oppo transport for now, or possibly the new Teac CD player that has utilised the Esoteric design team I think.
Personally I would really consider a high quality CD player using Phillips Pro2 mechanism that can act as a transport when looking to buy this in future, mainly because it provides redundancy if for any reason the DAC has to go back to manufacturer for repairs/upgrade.
Also it is probably fair to say CD players/Transports that do not have inputs to their DACs will suffer greater residual value loss than say a high end DAC with support for 24/192.
So if you can and you must spend the cash now I would think a DAC that you know you enjoy makes more sense for quite a few reasons inlcuding the big point a reference transport/CD player will be much cheaper in a few years (especially those without DAC related inputs).

Before taking the plunge though, definitely investigate the DAC is very latest design and good for both clock types; 44.1 and 48 increments.
Not having USB does not bother me as the consideration for that can be the Audiophileo or Halide (which hopefully will support 24/192 in future) and it will be these that have the support/drivers for USB connection to PC.

I assume you having to look now as you have a credit surplus with the dealer?
Cheers
Orb
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thanks, Orb. All good points from you, as usual! Yes, a cash sale of older equipment is driving this. I found out you can upgrade my second-hand Zanden DAC to 24/96...but Zanden does not think it is as good for 16/44. So i could just keep my DAC and 'upgrade' when Zanden have found a better-sounding upgrade path. Or i could 'go for the gusto' and test out this STahl-Tek...i am serious about the latter at least to really test drive it thoroughly. stay tuned...;) thanks again.
 

Emre Üçöz

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2011
161
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Any news on your quest to Stahl-Tek Lloyd?
by the way I might have the chance to own on a 2nd hand Metronome Kalista transport, I will try to negotitate with the owner. he is asking 17,000 €.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Emre,

I have clarified my thinking quite a bit over the last few wks on Stahl-Tek v. Zanden. I hope to audition in several weeks, but meanwhile, my research, multiple dialogues with owners (including many who have traded in their Zandens for Stahl-Teks) tells me:

- Vekian Opus is the real deal for guys who like Zanden. The noise floor is substantially lower, and the detail retreival more along the lines of today's latest ( a la Scarlatti)...but with a tonal balance and air more in line with Zanden. The Opus is apparently markedly better than the earlier Signature edition...but both are leagues ahead of the original whichi heard 2 years ago (and already found was the first digital to tempt me away from my Zanden).
- On Metronome, if you get the Kalista, try to get the 6cm thick clear lexan base used with the Kalista Reference...it is worth it if you can get it. The Metronome transport is very sensitive to stability of its support. I have no experience with vinyl, but it reminded me of how people describe turntables & support
- A little uneven surface, and you will hear it in the frequency spectrum. I first heard the Metronome kalista 3 years ago and noted to the dealer the 'frequency range seemed uneven'...i could not explain it. He acknowledged what i was hearing, stuck the unit on the lexan base support, and instantly, the frequency range smoothed out evenly, and a distinct level of 'hash/noise floor' disappeared.
- Perhaps if you have a very solid, even surface, this will not matter. Just a note i thought i would share with you given that you are about to invest a lot of money into a Transport that, when set up well, can deliver SOTA sound...may as well get your money's worth! Good luck.
 

Thf99

Member Sponsor
May 1, 2012
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Hi Emre,

I have clarified my thinking quite a bit over the last few wks on Stahl-Tek v. Zanden. I hope to audition in several weeks, but meanwhile, my research, multiple dialogues with owners (including many who have traded in their Zandens for Stahl-Teks) tells me:

- Vekian Opus is the real deal for guys who like Zanden. The noise floor is substantially lower, and the detail retreival more along the lines of today's latest ( a la Scarlatti)...but with a tonal balance and air more in line with Zanden. The Opus is apparently markedly better than the earlier Signature edition...but both are leagues ahead of the original whichi heard 2 years ago (and already found was the first digital to tempt me away from my Zanden).
- On Metronome, if you get the Kalista, try to get the 6cm thick clear lexan base used with the Kalista Reference...it is worth it if you can get it. The Metronome transport is very sensitive to stability of its support. I have no experience with vinyl, but it reminded me of how people describe turntables & support
- A little uneven surface, and you will hear it in the frequency spectrum. I first heard the Metronome kalista 3 years ago and noted to the dealer the 'frequency range seemed uneven'...i could not explain it. He acknowledged what i was hearing, stuck the unit on the lexan base support, and instantly, the frequency range smoothed out evenly, and a distinct level of 'hash/noise floor' disappeared.
- Perhaps if you have a very solid, even surface, this will not matter. Just a note i thought i would share with you given that you are about to invest a lot of money into a Transport that, when set up well, can deliver SOTA sound...may as well get your money's worth! Good luck.

Lloyd,
You seem to have heard most of the SOTA gears. What have you decided on now? Have you also considered the Neodio cdp and the burmester 069? As I'm also looking for a digital upgrade, your views would be helpful. Thanks.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Lloyd,
You seem to have heard most of the SOTA gears. What have you decided on now? Have you also considered the Neodio cdp and the burmester 069? As I'm also looking for a digital upgrade, your views would be helpful. Thanks.

Hi THF. i am still waiting to audition the Stahl-Tek Opus. I have heard from 3 people it is superior to the Neodio Transport/DAC combination. I have heard from only 1 person who felt there was something superior...Prawax on Audiogon felt he preferred his Concert Fidelity DAC though he did say he did not compare the 2 units in the same system...so it was only 'initial impressions'.

I have now spoken with 3 Editors/Writers whom i respect who have said the Zanden remains their favorite redbook digital of all. So for me, it remains these 2 as the ones i focus on...i either keep Zanden or go with Stahl-Tek Opus. Stay tuned...and let me know if you end up hearing or speaking with any one who has heard it!
 

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