State-of-the-Art Digital

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Mike, if you think Depeche Mode, Talk Talk, Tears For Fears, Sparks, Marillion, 80s synth period Rush etc will be in the dustbin, I beg to differ.
if we look at the big picture of pop/rock and list the top 10-15 (or 25) all time groups, which 80's groups would make the cut? just look at any list of all time favorite songs.

in my mind you go from the late 70's big names (Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, and the Eagles to name three), then jump back in at Nirvanna in 1990.

i could not name one song off the top of my head from any of the groups you mention. none. nada. i know i've heard and enjoyed music from those groups, but nothing that were a part of my life or listening. i've already explained that i was mostly a father in the 80's.......so skipped over the life-connection for that musical period and just had peripheral exposure to it.

so maybe it's just me.

don't mean to offend anyone who has that connection. and i already said i can get into an 80's mood and really enjoy it for......what.....it......is.
 
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JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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Mike, if you think Depeche Mode, Talk Talk, Tears For Fears, Sparks, Marillion, 80s synth period Rush etc will be in the dustbin, I beg to differ.
from the UK alone....Japan, Blue in Heaven, Zerra One, Bolshoii, the entire 4AD and Beggar's Banquet catalogs, Blue Nile, Ultravox, Echo and the Bunnymen....Good times! I totally avoided glam rock and smooth jazz but got pulled in by Mike's neighbors in Seattle. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana.
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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The difference in the 60's/70's rock was at the time it was tied to literally a revolution that was going on. This was different than just a great album coming out and the music was great and you grew up with it.

When CSN&Y came out with DejaVu and "almost cut my hair" all of a sudden all of the jocks and straights ended up growing their hair long.

It was different than just music attached to you growing up. It was for me anyway;)
Absolutely Bob. Many articles and books have been written on the subject.
And for most of us, that revolution had a definitive starting date; namely May 26, 1967 (in the UK; 1 week later in the US)

download.jpg
 
Jan 16, 2013
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Thx Marty, not kidding I just read your post and got goosebumps:) It was an incredible time to live through, especially in '67 if you were 15 years old:)
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Thx Marty, not kidding I just read your post and got goosebumps:) It was an incredible time to live through, especially in '67 if you were 15 years old:)
i was 16 in 67'.......and agree. it was an amazing time to be living the music. you could not separate life and the music.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Absolutely Bob. Many articles and books have been written on the subject.
And for most of us, that revolution had a definitive starting date; namely May 26, 1967 (in the UK; 1 week later in the US)

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If you have nothing better to do make a list of all the great bands pre 1980 versus post 1980. You will find that almost all the great rock was created in the pre Era. The number of great ( not ok or good but great) after 1980 is truly pathetic. For all of us old timers that lived through the summer of love and beyond we were truly lucky to see these bands in clubs, small halls and moderate size arenas where they played music and not were part of some gigantic show. I have stated numerous times and have a list posted ( always in transition) of some amazing music that also sounds great on my web site. It was IMO and that of a few friends that the early digital was not as bad as many thought it was truly shitty gear on playback.

I listen to stuff like Jethro Tull - try My God or Santana from their first release Soul Sacrifice ( if this doesn't rock you and your system you need new gear) or the first Chicago release Chicago Transit Authority - Beginnings
All of these are from the late 60's early 70's era.
Oh yeah there are 3 incredible bands both recorded and especially live
Enjoying my time machine always as that what I have always said a great audio system is.
Happy Holiday weekend
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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if we look at the big picture of pop/rock and list the top 10-15 (or 25) all time groups, which 80's groups would make the cut? just look at any list of all time favorite songs.
In the classic rock genre, The Police, Talking Heads, Michael Jackson and Queen all hit their stride in the 80's although technically all were formed in the very late 70's. Some would say REM, but I never warmed up to them.
 
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wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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I think it's a mistake to organize our conception of pop/rock music by decades. It reminds me of how the media likes to classify young people by decade (gen X, Melinneal, etc). Too simplistic.

As an 11 yr old in '67 I was completely wrapped up in what was happening with music and the culture. It was a fantastically fertile period, but maybe it shouldn't be over-romanticized either. There was a LOT of crappy music being produced in the 60's to 70's as well. We baby boomers have our touchstones that changed our lives and we get caught up thinking/feeling our adolescent culture is the only one that was powerful and real.

If I wanted to take the time (which I don't!) I bet I could list 50 albums of equal musical depth and lasting power in each one of these decades-- 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's..... A lot of them might have flown under the mass media radar, but it happened and the recordings are there as evidence.
 
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Jan 16, 2013
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I think it's a mistake to organize our conception of pop/rock music by decades. It reminds me of how the media likes to classify young people by decade (gen X, Melinneal, etc). Too simplistic.

As an 11 yr old in '67 I was completely wrapped up in what was happening with music and the culture. It was a fantastically fertile period, but maybe it shouldn't be over-romanticized either. There was a LOT of crappy music being produced in the 60's to 70's then as well.

If I wanted to take the time (which I don't!) I bet I could list 100 albums of equal musical depth and lasting power in each one of these decades-- 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's..... A lot of them might have flown under the mass media radar, but it's there.
100% Disagree:)
 
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wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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There may be a lot wrong w 80s cds, and 80s rock/pop...but there's also a lot right. I'm finding a fair number of current remastered 80s stuff is lacking guts and dynamics (80s Rush and King Crimson especially).

Tears For Fears, Talk Talk, Depeche Mode, XTC...fantastic, and holds it's head up proudly w any era. Throw in 80s synth era Rush, 90s Steve Hogarth era Marillion, and you're good to go.
Not that I'm particularly fond of the 80's, but the few recordings that I do have from the 80's in my collection and stream from playlists are quite good. The only problem with the 80's IMO is the compression, ALA latest Santana and Pearl Jam. I find many of the 60's and some 70's tracks to be thin because they are lacking in dynamics and bass, or both. The 70's is my era. Some of the Led Zeppelin and Fleetwood Mac tracks are a bit thin. CSN&Y is thin. Neal Young and Steven Stills are not thin. For the most part, I like most of the tracks from the 70's and have them in my collection. Some are outstanding.

There was a transition from the 70's to 80's of different mastering equipment and recording techniques I think, causing more compression and EQ to be used. Maybe even different microphones being used.
 
Jan 16, 2013
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Don't make me compile a list, Bob!
We are talking about two different things. I am talking about the effect that happened as Marty said in '67. This wasn't about the music and if it was good or not. This was about Joni Mitchell and CSN&Y, Led Zep, the Stones, the British Invasion, and Woodstock and how when the albums came out they were in total sync with what was going on say on May 4 at Kent State. Or the riots in Chicago by CSN. Every time something happened one of these groups would have a record out in a month or it seemed at the exact same time.

There were events going on in the late 60's and the music was hand in hand with those world events. Also this was the first time that this stuff was happening. In the 50's and early 60's it was just music. A LOT of great music but it was music.

When the late 60's came around and Vietnam was going on, the music was the anthem for the generation of teenagers, to rebel about what the f....was going on.

What I am talking about has nothing to do with comparing the music of one decade to the next. Sure there was great music from the 1800's until today. I love all of it. What I am referring to in the late 60's and early 70's is an entirely different experience.

You either were there and experienced it and embraced it and still remember it or you don't. I am just saying this was MY experience and nothing to do with the quality of actual music.

It was much more than that AND since the early 70's that has never occurred in the same manner. Again, this is all just my experience, nothing to do with anyone else, although those that know what I'm talking about understand it completely.
 
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Elliot G.

Industry Expert
In the classic rock genre, The Police, Talking Heads, Michael Jackson and Queen all hit their stride in the 80's although technically all were formed in the very late 70's. Some would say REM, but I never warmed up to them.
Marty, that would be a matter of opinion however all of these bands were pre 1980 as i stated along with the Stones, Beatles, Allmans, Tull, Led Zep etc. etc.
There are some post 1980 bands but only a small amount of great ones
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
4,205
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Switzerland
:).
Hi jack , my dac with the L shaped connector originally came from england and i had to put another european wall socket connector .
I m sure these L shaped ones can be still found on the net .
The whole idea from levinson of putting the connector right in the middle of the underside of the dac had to do with shortened print lay outs i heard .

You can always try some woodblocks under the feet and use a regular connector for the time being i did so for a weekend.

No i have listened only to 44.1 .
When i connected the meitner digital out with the 110 ohm aes / ebu cable the screen said 44.1 and i havent looked into anything else..
I dont have much knowledge of digital issues i must confess.
But i have quite a few cd /sacds s which are mixed mastered recorded in DSD.
But when i play them on the levinson which supposedly doesnt have all those specs its a complete different ballgame still after 15-20 years .
And as im not listening to specs the choice was easy .
I m looking to buy a 30.6 as well in due time.
Get a 30.5.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,058
2,021
433
E. England
I know Magma is not to everyone's taste. But I saw them live for the second time about 5 years ago. And tbh, as a massive fan of prog/fusion/electric jazz from 1967-1975, but born in 1964, I never experienced those ground breaking live concerts from Coltrane-Sanders in late 60s, Miles great quintet and electric revolution in late 60s and early 70s, the mutations into early fusion of late 60s and 70s w Larry Coryell, scorching John McLaughlin and Mahavishnu Orchestra, early experimental Weather Report and Return To Forever, uncompromising King Crimson and Can, first wave of British prog w Floyd, Yes, Genesis and Tull. And the birth of Metal w Black Sabbath, ably assisted by Zep.
And that brings me onto Magma. They were at the vanguard of crazy barrier breaking early 70s experimental prog...and four decades later, hearing them live for stretches was like a time machine to what it must have been like catching 70s Miles, King Crimson etc live. It was such a strange, visceral, pleasurable experience...a true journey back in time.
I totally envy you guys who experienced it first time. Alongside catching up w Stan Lee and Marvel Comics at the time, catching Midnight Cowboy, Easy Rider, 2001, Silent Running, French Connection, Godfather on the big screen...Star Trek, Dr Who, MASH, Rockford Files, Columbo on the small screen.
And real involvement in your nations politics.
I would kill to have been born a decade earlier.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
8,657
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I think it's a mistake to organize our conception of pop/rock music by decades. It reminds me of how the media likes to classify young people by decade (gen X, Melinneal, etc). Too simplistic.

As an 11 yr old in '67 I was completely wrapped up in what was happening with music and the culture. It was a fantastically fertile period, but maybe it shouldn't be over-romanticized either. There was a LOT of crappy music being produced in the 60's to 70's as well. We baby boomers have our touchstones that changed our lives and we get caught up thinking/feeling our adolescent culture is the only one that was powerful and real.

If I wanted to take the time (which I don't!) I bet I could list 50 albums of equal musical depth and lasting power in each one of these decades-- 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's..... A lot of them might have flown under the mass media radar, but it happened and the recordings are there as evidence.
the issue is long term cultural impact and presence in the subconsciousness of people. a universal language.

if you are an advertiser and desire impact, real impact; it's the Beatles, or Stones or Led Zep or such. it cuts across all ages and touches people in the whole western culture. like Beethoven's 5th. transcendent. unmistakable.

a whole different question than musical depth or artistic merits. agree that there was plenty of that, is plenty of that, in every era.

lasting power to retain attention would be where we differ. that's what 'classic' means. and the answer is yet to be written about the 80's, 90's and on forward. but it does not appear to be so from where i stand right now.
 
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morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
4,205
862
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Switzerland
if we look at the big picture of pop/rock and list the top 10-15 (or 25) all time groups, which 80's groups would make the cut? just look at any list of all time favorite songs.

in my mind you go from the late 70's big names (Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, and the Eagles to name three), then jump back in at Nirvanna in 1990.

i could not name one song off the top of my head from any of the groups you mention. none. nada. i know i've heard and enjoyed music from those groups, but nothing that were a part of my life or listening. i've already explained that i was mostly a father in the 80's.......so skipped over the life-connection for that musical period and just had peripheral exposure to it.

so maybe it's just me.

don't mean to offend anyone who has that connection. and i already said i can get into an 80's mood and really enjoy it for......what.....it......is.
It’s just you...I can relate to what Marc is saying...
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,058
2,021
433
E. England
Mike, you can trace straight lines from those ground breaking late 60s early 70s bands to everyone today.
Anthrax...go back to Sabbath. Ambient groove drum and bass...Miles On The Corner.
Muse...Queen 70s
Non descript modern RnB...Motown
And on you go.
Ok, King Crimson has a direct line from Bartok and Stravinsky.
And Zep from Muddy Waters.
But still...67-75 seeded almost everything worthwhile today.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
4,205
862
198
Switzerland
i was 16 in 67'.......and agree. it was an amazing time to be living the music. you could not separate life and the music.
As far as rock music goes, I honestly don’t think there is a decade that could touch the 70s. An unreal level of creativity and inventiveness.
 

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