State of the Art Solid State vs SOTA Tubes: Which is Moving Faster?

musicfirst1

VIP/Donor
Mar 8, 2015
504
309
395
Canada
www.musicfirstdistribution.ca
I think SOTA Solid State gear has come a long way sonically in the past decade, but I'm not convinced the same is true of Tube designs.
Lots of big tube designs have evolved with auto biasing and other tricks, but they sound essentially the same to me as they did twenty or more years ago.
Any thoughts?
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Cant agree current SS beat past great SOTA SS amps , Im sure there are a few exceptions today but for the most part most current SS designs i have heard today leave a lot wanting ..
 
  • Like
Reactions: morricab

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
1,432
681
1,430
The 33 is dark and slow. Impressive in stature but that's about it. Same for the 26. Not exactly a "great" SS, past or present....
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Not sure i said or mention the 33 being one, but i have heard as much i can get myself to and dont feel most modern SS has anything with some exceptions doing better quite contrary , most comments on modern SS amps are dead , dry , boring , weak et al ..

Hence why still Tubes ..

So not any different then :)

BTW got yourself a good pr of speakers yet ..?
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
Individual biases, system gear / synergy, and a host of other variables will impact one's personal preference. This thread reminds me of the endless D vs A discussions that have occurred on WBF in the past. This is another rabbit hole. Have fun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CKKeung

musicfirst1

VIP/Donor
Mar 8, 2015
504
309
395
Canada
www.musicfirstdistribution.ca
Individual biases, system gear / synergy, and a host of other variables will impact one's personal preference. This thread reminds me of the endless D vs A discussions that have occurred on WBF in the past. This is another rabbit hole. Have fun.
Well, the distinction here, is that I'm NOT looking to debate tubes vs SS. It is in the advances in topology that I believe solid state holds the biggest advances. Witness amps like Jadis or CAT or various SET designs; they sound essentially the same as they have for decades and most tube circuits have been around since the 50s or earlier.

My point is, for me, for over 40 years tubes ruled, and there was no substiute. I was weaned on my dads 50s vintage tube based console stereo, but my last two amplifiers, and I suspect my next will be SS. The gap has closed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hogen

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
There are more SS manufacturers than Tube so it follows that competition is greater too. Rate of progress should theoretically be faster.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
Well, the distinction here, is that I'm NOT looking to debate tubes vs SS. It is in the advances in topology that I believe solid state holds the biggest advances. Witness amps like Jadis or CAT or various SET designs; they sound essentially the same as they have for decades and most tube circuits have been around since the 50s or earlier.

My point is, for me, for over 40 years tubes ruled, and there was no substiute. I was weaned on my dads 50s vintage tube based console stereo, but my last two amplifiers, and I suspect my next will be SS. The gap has closed.

Has SS on average gotten better? Yes. Whether the gap has closed is debatable...

And furthermore, what gap and how has it closed? would people who are interested in enjoying all types of music vs. an audiophile sound take a 20 year old Symphonic Line or older Gryphon over the newer hyped up SS? Heck Yes!

During the same period of time as these SS amps have been improving, the popular speakers have gotten harder to drive.

Audio Research can't drive wilsons or focals unless guys like a syrupy sound. Heck, Audio Research 750 can't drive their own Aida unless one likes syrupy sound.

And while the technology has "improved on average" the audiophiles have gotten sicker, fatter, and lazier to get out of the chair. Just as streaming Tidal instead of playing their favorite record or CD, it's just good enough...
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
Furthermore, top SS brands like MBL and Burmester have not really updated their designs in 10-15 years.

MBL Extreme systems use the same SS amps the've been using for a long while; I'm sure their customers can afford to upgrade...When was Burmester 911 last updated? Many guys swear by that amp as one of the greatest amps of all time...

So maybe we are just getting more flavors to drive the highly prevalent, inefficient box speakers...
 
  • Like
Reactions: hogen

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
Well, the distinction here, is that I'm NOT looking to debate tubes vs SS. It is in the advances in topology that I believe solid state holds the biggest advances. Witness amps like Jadis or CAT or various SET designs; they sound essentially the same as they have for decades and most tube circuits have been around since the 50s or earlier.

My point is, for me, for over 40 years tubes ruled, and there was no substiute. I was weaned on my dads 50s vintage tube based console stereo, but my last two amplifiers, and I suspect my next will be SS. The gap has closed.

The newer CAT amps, from the last 5 years or so, are much better than his excellent older amps. Ditto with VAC. So not a true a statement
 

musicfirst1

VIP/Donor
Mar 8, 2015
504
309
395
Canada
www.musicfirstdistribution.ca
The newer CAT amps, from the last 5 years or so, are much better than his excellent older amps. Ditto with VAC. So not a true a statement
In this discussion there is no "true" ;) Its all, after all, each ones opinion. For example, having heard Ken's latest and owned one of his "classics". I prefer the latter. I don't find his latest "much better"
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Speaker (load ) First then amp for the load.

Amplifiers sound and perform different on different loads , especially SS amps , temp and bias drift plus clipping characteristics will determine much what we hear and like and all of those metrics move and change with load ..

BTW if low watt high sensitivity was everything we all would have that setup since none is truly correct many paths exist to achieve desired goals ..

IMO very few modern amps beat old problem with old is they need to be fully restored to compete and sadly many are not leading to inconclusive silly comments from big eared philes :)

My 2cent ..!
 

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,355
2,731
1,400
Amsterdam holland
My gut feeling is solidstate became faster.
I was going to try to find that out by going to munich this year .
That needs to wait till next year .
Contenders : CH gryphon vitus d agostino boulder dartzeel and some more i forgot to mention .
Would i trade the tubes in for those ? hmm not likely but everything is possible
Tubes have the breath of life and some good tube designs are intrinsically fast .
Plus i like the bass good tube amps give , a more realistic full orchestra swell in my view
Would i like to have both , yes .
The new vitus 30 watts class A integrated for example which you can also use with a tube pre amp .
A guy i respect a lot says Vitus is very good
 
Last edited:

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,189
1,387
450
Darts are really not done like modern low distortion amps so i would not include them in the modern camp, they are more an updated evolution , Vitus is not at those levels IMO ...

Maybe we need to define what is Vintage SS ...
 

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,355
2,731
1,400
Amsterdam holland
Matk levinson 33 H .
Sota back then .
Kinda slow sounding to my ears now.
Boulder same thing sounds very good for SS , but its not as fast good tubes ( On the right load )
If you have speakers which are to much to bear for a tube amp it all sounds drained of energy and slow
Its off course easy to blame it on the tubes.
But in reality its a mismatch , so for most people who dont wanna fuss about to much and want a fast combo its probably safe to buy a 300 watt d agostino and call it a day.
Disclaimer
All imo and i certainly havent heard all posibilities.
I even havent heard d agostino:)
 
Last edited:

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,355
2,731
1,400
Amsterdam holland
darts are really not done like modern low distortion amps
Cant really comment , i heard the 108 power amp once in a hifi shop in moscow .( right on the red square )
The guy also made his own loudspeakers and the membrane roll surround he made from leather .
Kinda strange demo.
It did sound like it had a clean sounding top end though
 

musicfirst1

VIP/Donor
Mar 8, 2015
504
309
395
Canada
www.musicfirstdistribution.ca
My gut feeling is solidstate became faster.
I was going to try to find that out by going to munich this year .
That needs to wait till next year .
Contenders : CH gryphon vitus d agostino boulder dartzeel and some more i forgot to mention .
Would i trade the tubes in for those ? hmm not likely but everything is possible
Tubes have the breath of life and some good tube designs are intrinsically fast .
Plus i like the bass good tube amps give , a more realistic full orchestra swell in my view
Would i like to have both , yes .
The new vitus 30 watts class A integrated for example which you can also use with a tube pre amp .
A guy i respect a lot says Vitus is very good
Gotta include Audionet and EMMs new monsters in this company, I think.
 

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,355
2,731
1,400
Amsterdam holland
The new audionets i have not heard .
I have heard the old ones and they didnt exite me much .
Same as soulution it sounds as it looks .
Sterile and boring ..
Other tubes i like are octave ..
Lamm no exposure , heard it only once
 
Last edited:

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
(...) Audio Research can't drive wilsons or focals unless guys like a syrupy sound. Heck, Audio Research 750 can't drive their own Aida unless one likes syrupy sound. (...)

I do not like syrupy sound and I appreciate a lot the Aida's and the XLF's driven by the audio Research 750's - in fact the sound was very dynamic and lively in the few times I listened to such pairing. A few friends own Audio Research / Wilson and it is not syrupy at all ...
If it was not for the heat and tube count I would still own the REF610 or the REF750.
 
  • Like
Reactions: asiufy

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing