Supravox Speakers and Drivers

dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
573
718
228
Melbourne, Australia
This thread is in response to a comment in the Wilson XVX first impressions thread

Hi,
I have a pair of Supravox Alizee, which have a single 8 inch 215-2000 driver in a TQWT cabinet. I use this as a basis for a full active DIY horn setup with an upper mid/tweeter horn (Beyma CP755Ti and 18 sound XT1464 horn OR Beyma CP350Ti and Iwata 600 horn).

Hi Morricab,

Interesting that you found you needed to supplement these with a mid tweeter horn. I also have the Supravox 215 (Exc version), and find that it needs a tweeter.

At what frequency are you crossing over, and what order are your filters?

I think the Supravox is a magnificent sounding driver, although I am using it in a different context - open baffle in a 3 way.

Cheers

David
 

jeff1225

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2012
3,011
3,255
1,410
51
This thread is in response to a comment in the Wilson XVX first impressions thread



Hi Morricab,

Interesting that you found you needed to supplement these with a mid tweeter horn. I also have the Supravox 215 (Exc version), and find that it needs a tweeter.

At what frequency are you crossing over, and what order are your filters?

I think the Supravox is a magnificent sounding driver, although I am using it in a different context - open baffle in a 3 way.

Cheers

David
I'd be interested in seeing pictures of your DIY speaker with field coils. It sounds very interesting.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
This thread is in response to a comment in the Wilson XVX first impressions thread



Hi Morricab,

Interesting that you found you needed to supplement these with a mid tweeter horn. I also have the Supravox 215 (Exc version), and find that it needs a tweeter.

At what frequency are you crossing over, and what order are your filters?

I think the Supravox is a magnificent sounding driver, although I am using it in a different context - open baffle in a 3 way.

Cheers

David

I actually cross it quite low at 1Khz. While I find the midrange (and bass in the TQWT) stunning, I have consistently found that I prefer everything from lower treble up to be covered by the compression driver/horn combo. Perhaps it has something to do with the proximity of the drivers as I cannot really get them close enough together to have a smooth lobbing at very high frequencies. I have tried everything from 12Khz down and keep landing at 1Khz. For the smaller horn/driver 2Khz and 1.5Khz also work well but the big driver/horn likes 1K and will work pretty well down to 800Hz (although there I found I preferred a bit higher up).

The filters I find to sound the best so far are 2nd order LR. Since I am doing a digital xover I am also playing a bit with time alignment but until I get my old computer out of the cellar, I don't have a good way to measure the impulse response and it seems hard to dial this in just by listening. I have mecanically aligned the drivers based on expected time delays and this seems to work pretty well.

I also do a bit of eq on the compression driver over 7Khz to offset the drop due to using a constant directivity horn (about 4db boost above 7Khz.)

Bass is flat to about 30Hz in my room even though the specs for the Alizee say only 55hz. The bass is actually quite powerful and surprising given that the driver essentially doesn't move regardless of how loud or how much bass is in the music. It seems this kind of driver, with a very low Qts, loves this kind of loading. Probably the open baffle will give an even pure midrange but it is already darn good.

What are you using for a tweeter and bass driver?

I plan to eventually build another TQWT but with bass drivers on the rear side, which makes it a double TQWT where the main driver and bass drivers will load the same horn mouth but with different tuning. This will give even more authority in the bass and a smoother bass as well.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland



This is with the large Beyma driver and the 18 sound horn.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Addicted to hifi

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland

The small horn...same crossover frequency
 

dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
573
718
228
Melbourne, Australia
I'd be interested in seeing pictures of your DIY speaker with field coils. It sounds very interesting.
Thanks.

The speakers are not very pretty, and I am still working on the crossovers.

The Supravox is open baffle working from 200Hz to 5KHz. The tweeter is sealed, as is the bass.

The bass goes down to about 30Hz in room, and the tweeter extends up to about 16 KHz (Not hi rez :) )

The crossover filters are all first order and all drivers are in phase



IMG_20200803_192940.jpg

IMG_20200809_193858.jpg

1609839049333.png

1609839136634.png


What are you using for a tweeter and bass driver?

The tweeter is a Seas Exotic T35:

1609840142062.png

The woofer is Wolf Von Langa 150A, which is supposed to replicate the classic JBL 150-4c. It is a field coil, with a JbL K145 frame and cone.

1609840104126.png
 

dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
573
718
228
Melbourne, Australia
I actually cross it quite low at 1Khz. While I find the midrange (and bass in the TQWT) stunning, I have consistently found that I prefer everything from lower treble up to be covered by the compression driver/horn combo. Perhaps it has something to do with the proximity of the drivers as I cannot really get them close enough together to have a smooth lobbing at very high frequencies. I have tried everything from 12Khz down and keep landing at 1Khz. For the smaller horn/driver 2Khz and 1.5Khz also work well but the big driver/horn likes 1K and will work pretty well down to 800Hz (although there I found I preferred a bit higher up).

Yes, integrating the Supravox with other drivers can be difficult. I initially tried to run the Supravox full range and just bring the tweeter in around 9KHz where the Supravox ran out of steam, but I was getting comb filtering and needed to roll the Supravox off at 5KHz and bring the tweeter down. There is still an issue with the room power response with the Supravox beaming at the xover frequency, but it is all a compromise and I love the midrange from the Supravox.

The filters I find to sound the best so far are 2nd order LR. Since I am doing a digital xover I am also playing a bit with time alignment but until I get my old computer out of the cellar, I don't have a good way to measure the impulse response and it seems hard to dial this in just by listening. I have mecanically aligned the drivers based on expected time delays and this seems to work pretty well.

I prefer first order filters, but also apply contour shaping and impedance compensation. My time alignment is also done through voice coil alignment, and this is easily audible.
I plan to eventually build another TQWT but with bass drivers on the rear side, which makes it a double TQWT where the main driver and bass drivers will load the same horn mouth but with different tuning. This will give even more authority in the bass and a smoother bass as well.

I would have though you would be playing with the Aries Cerat horns :).
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
Yes, integrating the Supravox with other drivers can be difficult. I initially tried to run the Supravox full range and just bring the tweeter in around 9KHz where the Supravox ran out of steam, but I was getting comb filtering and needed to roll the Supravox off at 5KHz and bring the tweeter down. There is still an issue with the room power response with the Supravox beaming at the xover frequency, but it is all a compromise and I love the midrange from the Supravox.



I prefer first order filters, but also apply contour shaping and impedance compensation. My time alignment is also done through voice coil alignment, and this is easily audible.


I would have though you would be playing with the Aries Cerat horns :).
I would if I could afford them...

This is of course my fun system where I play with ideas. My main system is with Odeon La Boheme speakers, Aries Cerat Genus integrated and Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC.

As to the filter slopes, I would prefer to have 1st order but I was not getting the same clarity in the upper registers that I get from the horns...perhaps if I got the time integration a bit better it might gel more but for now I like the openness of the horns.
 

dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
573
718
228
Melbourne, Australia
I would if I could afford them...

This is of course my fun system where I play with ideas. My main system is with Odeon La Boheme speakers, Aries Cerat Genus integrated and Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC.

I like the Aries Cerat gear, heard the full system at the Melbourne Hifi show a couple of years ago.

As to the filter slopes, I would prefer to have 1st order but I was not getting the same clarity in the upper registers that I get from the horns...perhaps if I got the time integration a bit better it might gel more but for now I like the openness of the horns.

First order slopes are very difficult to get right. I have been working on my crossovers for over 6 months.
 
  • Like
Reactions: morricab

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
I like the Aries Cerat gear, heard the full system at the Melbourne Hifi show a couple of years ago.



First order slopes are very difficult to get right. I have been working on my crossovers for over 6 months.
I try to avoid really steep filters because on speakers that use them I can hear the individual character of each driver and not a unified whole sound. Coherence is very important to me.
 

Addicted to hifi

VIP/Donor
Sep 8, 2020
4,610
2,039
265
52
Australia
Thanks.

The speakers are not very pretty, and I am still working on the crossovers.

The Supravox is open baffle working from 200Hz to 5KHz. The tweeter is sealed, as is the bass.

The bass goes down to about 30Hz in room, and the tweeter extends up to about 16 KHz (Not hi rez :) )

The crossover filters are all first order and all drivers are in phase



View attachment 73312

View attachment 73313

View attachment 73314

View attachment 73315




The tweeter is a Seas Exotic T35:

View attachment 73317

The woofer is Wolf Von Langa 150A, which is supposed to replicate the classic JBL 150-4c. It is a field coil, with a JbL K145 frame and cone.

View attachment 73316
Well done on building these awesome speakers.
 

dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
573
718
228
Melbourne, Australia

Superchunk

Member
Feb 19, 2023
33
17
8
45
Thanks.

The speakers are not very pretty, and I am still working on the crossovers.

The Supravox is open baffle working from 200Hz to 5KHz. The tweeter is sealed, as is the bass.

The bass goes down to about 30Hz in room, and the tweeter extends up to about 16 KHz (Not hi rez :) )

The crossover filters are all first order and all drivers are in phase



View attachment 73312

View attachment 73313

View attachment 73314

View attachment 73315




The tweeter is a Seas Exotic T35:

View attachment 73317

The woofer is Wolf Von Langa 150A, which is supposed to replicate the classic JBL 150-4c. It is a field coil, with a JbL K145 frame and cone.

View attachment 73316
Wanna sell me those wvl field coils? ;)
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing