System Videos and the References Used to Judge their Quality.

PeterA

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I came across a music video on YouTube this morning of solo violin and posted it in a thread which discussed system videos. I have since deleted it from there as inappropriate to the thread discussion and decided to rather post it here. Perhaps we can have a discussion on the usefulness of videos when assessing system sound quality or component comparisons. I wonder also about the whole notion of references, and what we use to judge the sound of a system, when sitting in front of it, or hearing it on a video.

Many audiophiles use live music as a reference when judging the sound quality of a music system. It seems that recently people are posting more and more system videos on this forum to share music, have some fun, and in some cases, solicit opinions about the sound of a system, either their own, or someone else's. It is the idea of judging a system's sound through videos that I would like to discuss here, not the value of sharing new music or providing a context to ones virtual system thread.

Dealers post videos of some new speaker or other component that has arrived to give an impression of its sound. I often watch these videos and others in system threads to get a sense of the quality of the sound of those systems or specific components in direct comparison videos. Many people find such videos unhelpful or so removed from the actual sound of the system, that they simply dismiss the whole idea.

I wonder if it might be more useful to compare a system video to a video of a live music performance just as some of us do when we judge the actual sound of a system we hear to our memory of a live music performance. In other words, comparisons of video to video, and of live listening to live listening.

Here is a video of a live music performance. I do not know if I have ever heard any system video of a solo violin which sounds as convincing as this one, or I'm sure other such recordings of live music. I wonder if when judging the sound quality of a system through a video we should be judging the sound compared to a video like this one rather than to our memory of actual live music. This way we could go back and forth quickly rather than rely on memory. As I wrote in that other thread, I am waiting to heard a system video that sounds as convincing as the violin being played here live sounds in this video.

I think comparing a system video to a video like this is a more direct comparison and perhaps more useful than is comparing the sound of a system video to some memory of the sound of live music, just as judging the sound of the actual system when heard while sitting in front of it is made easier when remembering the sound of live music and using that as the reference.

 

andromedaaudio

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Its the storage medium thats the main culprit.
Whether is digital , direct to disc ,
tape .
They have to invent a new / better medium to improve reproduction substantially
 
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PeterA

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Its the storage medium thats the main culprit.
Whether is digital , direct to disc ,
tape .
They have to invent a new / better medium to improve reproduction substantially

I understand. That is one reason I was bringing up the video to video comparison. Both are on YouTube using the same or similar storage mediums. Yet, this recording of a live performance to my ears sounds better than most or all system videos I've heard. It would suggest that the recording itself and the system severely limit what we hear from the original. The live music video limits less, or so it seems to me, based on what I hear when comparing it to a typical system video.
 

bonzo75

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You will also never have any system sounding like live in real. You only have systems connecting to your live sound template. So all you need are system videos which connect to your template.
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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I came across a music video on YouTube this morning of solo violin and posted it in a thread which discussed system videos. I have since deleted it from there as inappropriate to the thread discussion and decided to rather post it here. Perhaps we can have a discussion on the usefulness of videos when assessing system sound quality or component comparisons. I wonder also about the whole notion of references, and what we use to judge the sound of a system, when sitting in front of it, or hearing it on a video.

Many audiophiles use live music as a reference when judging the sound quality of a music system. It seems that recently people are posting more and more system videos on this forum to share music, have some fun, and in some cases, solicit opinions about the sound of a system, either their own, or someone else's. It is the idea of judging a system's sound through videos that I would like to discuss here, not the value of sharing new music or providing a context to ones virtual system thread.

Dealers post videos of some new speaker or other component that has arrived to give an impression of its sound. I often watch these videos and others in system threads to get a sense of the quality of the sound of those systems or specific components in direct comparison videos. Many people find such videos unhelpful or so removed from the actual sound of the system, that they simply dismiss the whole idea.

I wonder if it might be more useful to compare a system video to a video of a live music performance just as some of us do when we judge the actual sound of a system we hear to our memory of a live music performance. In other words, comparisons of video to video, and of live listening to live listening.

Here is a video of a live music performance. I do not know if I have ever heard any system video of a solo violin which sounds as convincing as this one, or I'm sure other such recordings of live music. I wonder if when judging the sound quality of a system through a video we should be judging the sound compared to a video like this one rather than to our memory of actual live music. This way we could go back and forth quickly rather than rely on memory. As I wrote in that other thread, I am waiting to heard a system video that sounds as convincing as the violin being played here live sounds in this video.

I think comparing a system video to a video like this is a more direct comparison and perhaps more useful than is comparing the sound of a system video to some memory of the sound of live music, just as judging the sound of the actual system when heard while sitting in front of it is made easier when remembering the sound of live music and using that as the reference.


Hi Peter,
I have to say that I'm not particularly impressed with the sound quality of this video, the tonality isn't rich enough. I can see her playing but I don't hear it all there unless it's a cheap ass violin which I don't believe that it is.

This is also a direct feed probably from a boom mic directly above her head and not a cellphone video 3-6m away from a pair of speakers with sound bouncing everywhere before it's captured. You'll hear a big difference in quality if you get a direct feed from your preamp instead of the recording the speakers and the room. I'm not saying that the system will actually equal live only that you're comparing plums to watermelons :)!

david
 

User211

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Jul 28, 2014
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It's a waste of time.

I have been posting show videos for years on YouTube.

How do I know it's a waste of time?

The same system recorded via a mobile phone versus a Rowland digital recorder shows the later to be massively superior. Neither sound like the original when played back through the system that was recorded.

But it is still a joke IMHO. You're generally replaying it through something completely different to the original system, with it's own personality.

Also it becomes very apparent that what sounds good in room may or may not sound good when recorded. Seriously it really varies with some material being caught quite well and some not at all.

I posted a hORNS Universum video here that sounds like mush but was actually respectable in room.
 

Folsom

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Peter that video is probably exponentially more raw than your average album. That's a very simple answer, the production work of albums makes them not sound like an actual in person performance.
 

User211

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A while back I posted a video recorded via my mobile phone and then an audio only recording of the same track via the Rowland to prove the point I made above.

The issue of course being that it depends a lot on what sort of gear you use to do the recording. With most YT videos you have no idea.
 
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Steve Williams

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IMO watching videos of a system are totally useless. I ignore them whenever someone posts. It tells me nothing about a system
 

bonzo75

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But if you ignore them how will you know their worth?
 

Steve Williams

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You can call it however you want Ked. To me they are totally useless. I’ve learned to ignore them
 
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PeterA

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IMO watching videos of a system are totally useless. I ignore them whenever someone posts. It tells me nothing about a system

Yes. Many people do, others do not. I learned a lot from making the videos from my tonearm comparison. Sharing them was fun, others seemed to enjoy them, and I learned more about critical listening. I might have more to learn than others here.
 
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PeterA

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You can call it however you want Ked. To me they are totally useless. I’ve learned to ignore them

Steve, I've learned about some great music from watching Tang's videos and others. I also watch some of the movie videos you post like the recent Batman trailer thread. It's all good.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve, I've learned about some great music from watching Tang's videos and others. I also watch some of the movie videos you post like the recent Batman trailer thread. It's all good.
It is all good but you’re comparing now a video trailer for movies. My point is using videos such as these to learn about how a system sounds has never been a learning experience for me If the point is introducing new music that others might enjoy I’m all for that but to plut the same music with different components and ask which is better is something I just don’t hazard a guess
 

bonzo75

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Steve, I've learned about some great music from watching Tang's videos and others. I also watch some of the movie videos you post like the recent Batman trailer thread. It's all good.

a big difference as with a trailer you get one shot. With a video series you see it developing over time and get patterns. You will then see videos of other similar components and hear some physically, exchange notes, and it all comes together more than simply exchanging notes or going to a hifi show
 

bonzo75

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Here is one video with a violin placed under the tape deck. One is without the violin. can you hear differences.


 

Al M.

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Here is a video of a live music performance. I do not know if I have ever heard any system video of a solo violin which sounds as convincing as this one, or I'm sure other such recordings of live music. I wonder if when judging the sound quality of a system through a video we should be judging the sound compared to a video like this one rather than to our memory of actual live music. This way we could go back and forth quickly rather than rely on memory. As I wrote in that other thread, I am waiting to heard a system video that sounds as convincing as the violin being played here live sounds in this video.

I think comparing a system video to a video like this is a more direct comparison and perhaps more useful than is comparing the sound of a system video to some memory of the sound of live music, just as judging the sound of the actual system when heard while sitting in front of it is made easier when remembering the sound of live music and using that as the reference.

I am not sure I follow the logic. Judging the realism of sound of the video of a live performance relies on some memory of the sound of live music. Then how is using that video as a reference any better than using the memory of the sound of live music in the first place?
 

microstrip

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IMO watching videos of a system are totally useless. I ignore them whenever someone posts. It tells me nothing about a system

I fully agree with you concerning their value to compare the sound quality of systems. When I submitted them - including some recent ones - to spectral analysis I found they can be misleading and deceptive for general members. They can be however of interest for a very few members who are focusing in a very specific aspect of their preference.
 

Al M.

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Peter that video is probably exponentially more raw than your average album. That's a very simple answer, the production work of albums makes them not sound like an actual in person performance.

You are talking about pop productions. On classical releases, recordings often capture more of the 'raw' sound.
 

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