T+A 1- bit converters in the PDP-3000HV and DAC 8 DSD

[Sablon Audio]

I think the with the GG you would have had much more mileage going up from those stock 45s which are my least favorite. In fact I don't like them because they are lifeless.

Blue also happens to be comparing two different sources as well as dacs. The GG was plenty lively with these (EML 45 solid plate) valves on PCM from his Aries but soporific on DSD from the same source.

 

[EuroDriver]

Blue also happens to be comparing two different sources as well as dacs. The GG was plenty lively with these (EML 45 solid plate) valves on PCM from his Aries but soporific on DSD from the same source.

I am soporific several times a day, but never when listening to DSD 512 ;-)

 

[Blue58]

I think the with the GG you would have had much more mileage going up from those stock 45s which are my least favorite. In fact I don't like themy because they are lifeless.

Bonzo, the EML is NOT a lifeless tube of itself but in the GG application it WAS lifeless when listening to DSD and very much LIVELY in PCM. That is why I preferred the PCM presentation to DSD once again.

I'm guessing here that maybe the tube is running on a knife edge of sorts between the two camps.
No one has yet explained what 'conservatively rated' means when applied to the Lampi output tube and they are run I believe with constant current source, a no no by EML. (28ma, 6.6w, 2.5vAC is the sweet spot).

What I was trying to say in my post is how I am ONLY NOW, after listening to DSD from the initial Sony demo at Heathrow show many years ago through to the Lampi, many stops between and finally the T&A DAC8DSD, am I hearing the full dynamic range and expression of DSD that is easily surpassing PCM .....in my system.
Just to add, I am using a MacBook/Audirvana+2 rather than my Auralic Aries due to USB issues which is the only variable between the Lampi demo and T&A, so the Lampi had the advantage.

Right, who's going to arrange a shoot out between T&A/HQPDSD512 - Lampi512 - Trinity - Vivaldi - DAC Twelve?

Blue58

 

[Sablon Audio]

Right, who's going to arrange a shoot out between T&A/HQPDSD512 - Lampi512 - Trinity - Vivaldi - DAC Twelve?

Blue58

I can arrange for both an SGM DSD512 server and a lampi Big 6 512 however the latter does not have an inbuilt volume control, hence would need either a preamp or an integrated amp. Could however possibly source either a Vitus 25 or possibly an Ongaku.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi blue, we did a shootout with various valves, and the 45 was the worst on the lampi, even compared to cheaper JJ and electro harmonix 300b. No comparison to 101d or KR 300s

 

[Blue58]

Hi blue, we did a shootout with various valves, and the 45 was the worst on the lampi, even compared to cheaper JJ and electro harmonix 300b. No comparison to 101d or KR 300s

Can't disagree with that.
I see what you're saying now. I'm slow this morning, hay fever kicked in.
If I'd heard the Lampi with 101d I may have converted to DSD earlier. ;-)

 

[bonzo75]

I can arrange for both an SGM DSD512 server and a lampi Big 6 512 however the latter does not have an inbuilt volume control, hence would need either a preamp or an integrated amp. Could however possibly source either a Vitus 25 or possibly an Ongaku.

The PCM on Big 7 should be able to beat the Big 6 DSD 512.

 

[EuroDriver]

The PCM on Big 7 should be able to beat the Big 6 DSD 512.

I am pretty familiar with the the Lampi Big 7 on PCM and DSD 128 fed from HQ Player doing PCM > DSD

DSD 512 coming out of the T+A DAC 8 DSD with its inexpensive but well implemented linear PS for the analog section is a different sonic class from last year's Lampi Big 7

I am waiting with great expectations to hear Lampi's DSD512 converter, but if it is as well executed as T+A's mostly discrete 1-bit converter, it is hard to imagine that the B6 analog stage would be inferior to that in the T+A DAC 8 DSD

If the B7 PCM sounds better than the B6 DSD 512, I will buy you dinner.

 

[christoph]

Hello EuroDriver

Can you elaborate on how much processing power is needed to upconvert PCM to DSD512 with HQPlayer?

Thanks in advance.
Christoph

 

[EuroDriver]

Hello EuroDriver

Can you elaborate on how much processing power is needed to upconvert PCM to DSD512 with HQPlayer?

Thanks in advance.
Christoph

This is not an easy question to answer. The processing power needed is dependent on which filter is used and if you are doing room correction or not. Also the speed at which the cores are running at makes a difference, something which benchmark CPU overall test scores don't show very well. Our experience over the last six months is that core speed is more important than we first thought.

You can find threads on Computer Audiophile, where Jussi Laako, (aka Miska) the author of HQ Player discusses possible hardware configurations. Jussi is absolutely up to date on what's going on in the CPU and GPU world. His latest build uses a Skylake processor and has a CUDA GPU

 

[bonzo75]

I am pretty familiar with the the Lampi Big 7 on PCM and DSD 128 fed from HQ Player doing PCM > DSD

DSD 512 coming out of the T+A DAC 8 DSD with its inexpensive but well implemented linear PS for the analog section is a different sonic class from last year's Lampi Big 7

I am waiting with great expectations to hear Lampi's DSD512 converter, but if it is as well executed as T+A's mostly discrete 1-bit converter, it is hard to imagine that the B6 analog stage would be inferior to that in the T+A DAC 8 DSD

If the B7 PCM sounds better than the B6 DSD 512, I will buy you dinner.

Then we are listening for different things. The circuitry of the Big 6 does not allow for complex music to be played with the same articulation as the DHT Big 7, nor does it allow for the upgrade of valves to the same extent. If you think DSD 512 can overcome that or vinyl, we are listening for different things with preferences.

 

[christoph]

I have an hp envy Windows 10 PC with a quadcore i7 6700 processor with cuda graphics card.

I don't want to do room correction but I would like to be able to chose the most advanced/demanding filters (so not the "-2 filters") for the upconversion from PCM to DSD512, do you think this machine has the grunt to achieve that?

 

[hifial]

I have an hp envy Windows 10 PC with a quadcore i7 6700 processor with cuda graphics card.

I don't want to do room correction but I would like to be able to chose the most advanced/demanding filters (so not the "-2 filters") for the upconversion from PCM to DSD512, do you think this machine has the grunt to achieve that?

It should as the Quadcore i7 6700 and Cuda card are the ones that Miska recommends at the moment, but check with him at CA.

 

[marslo]

Can't disagree with that.
I see what you're saying now. I'm slow this morning, hay fever kicked in.
If I'd heard the Lampi with 101d I may have converted to DSD earlier. ;-)

Hi Blue,

I tried EML 45 Mesh Glob Ann Edition and I prefere 101 D WE replicas much more, I agree with bonzo75.
Your comments about Audio Aero , GG - its PCM and DSD are very interesting to me.
After nearly two months with my new speakers - Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD I think that I still prefer PCM from Audio Aero, for me it is more transparent and dynamic than Big 7 PCM ,even with R2R board. And I do not need more then 24/96 kHz, only Hrx from RR makes a difference for my ears.
Also the the noise floor is lower from La Fontaine in my setup.
I still put the best DSD native recordings from Fone above PCM for their outstanding palpability , 3 D sound stage and organic sound. To my surprise, DXD from Lampi is as good as best native DSD but I have only few recordings from 2L Nordic Sound.

Last month after having installed a new cartrigde - a Shelter Harmony I am back to my vinyl collection, the sound is on par with best native DSD, if not better. I am not a big fan of 128 fs DSD, native 64 fs recorded with good analog mics is just enough for me.
In my opinion transport is a key element in digital setup , did you ever try an Aurender?
My experience with S10 and W20 convinced me that the transport can improve the sound even more than the DAC does.
I am very curious about T+A Dac 8 but Aurender cannot convert DSD to higher resolution.

 

[Blue58]

Hi Blue,

I tried EML 45 Mesh Glob Ann Edition and I prefere 101 D WE replicas much more, I agree with bonzo75.
Your comments abour Audio Aero , GG and PCM and DSD are very interesting to me.
After nearly two months with my new speakers - Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD I think that I still prefer PCM from Audio Aero, for me it is more transparent and dynamic then Big 7 PCM ,even with R2R board. And I do not need more then 24/96 kHz, only Hrx from RR makes a difference .
Also the the noise floor is lower from La Fontaine in my setup.
I still put the best DSD native recordings from Fone above PCM for their outstanding palpability , 3 D sound stage and organic sound. To my surprise, DXD from Lampi is as good as best native DSD but I have only few recordings from 2L Nordic Sound.

Last month after having installed a new cartrigde - a Shelter Harmony I am back to my vinyl collection, the sound is in par with best native DSD, if not better. I am not a big fan of 128 fs DSD, native 64 fs recorded with good analog mics is just enough for me.
In my opinion transport is a key element in digital setup , did you ever try an Aurender?
My experience with S10 and W20 convinced me that the transport can improve the sound even more then the DAC does.
I am very courious about T+A Dac 8 but Aurender cannot convert DSD to higher resolution.

Hello Marslo, good to hear from you again. You must be enjoying the new XDs so much you've not had time to post your in depth opinion ;-)
Like yourself I've had a long 'love affair' with Audio Aero from Capitole MKII, Prestige SE to LaFontaine and have always enjoyed the presentation throughout probably due to the Anagram/stars reconstruction module.
A truly analogue sounding digital device. However I now think that I've finally found a DAC that surpasses this analogue like sound with equal parts verve and relaxation. I'm trying really hard to describe the sound and feeling deficient in vocabulary to explain how it differs from the AA sound whilst still keeping the essence of that sound.

Briefly, the soundstage is more expansive, resolution greater, noise floor lower and palpability greater. All these attributes are enhanced with an increase in volume whereas with the AA the sound occasionally became congested and course.

I had the GG, with the EML45s, insitu for a week or so but even though I appreciated the increase in SQ over the AA felt that ultimately the GG wasn't for me. Just something 'not quite right'.

This DAC8DSD has won me over with both PCM and finally DSD and honestly prefer it over the AA. The real development will be when I get to hear everything upsampled to DSD512, currently maxing out at DSD128 and PCM384.

I'm gushing over this new DAC so please take it as one man's opinion and await the reviews and comments from Munich. It may just be worth a try in your system with the Aurender or the soon to be released SGMS against the GG/AA and your comments would be greatly appreciated from fellow WBF readers.

Spirit will be popping around next week for a listen and I want his honest opinion, even at this half way mark towards full server and full upsampling.

It's even got a headphone out and I pick up my HEX tomorrow, oh happy days.

Blue58
Ps. Full report on the XDs please.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Mariusz, I have heard the Shelter Harmony on the Kuzma XL4 with the 4p arm. Sounded really good. It had the sweeter texture, more neutral than Koetsu, but more towards Koetsu than to the neutral Ortofon A90 types. Is that how it is in your system?

 

[marslo]

Hello Marslo, good to hear from you again. You must be enjoying the new XDs so much you've not had time to post your in depth opinion ;-)
Like yourself I've had a long 'love affair' with Audio Aero from Capitole MKII, Prestige SE to LaFontaine and have always enjoyed the presentation throughout probably due to the Anagram/stars reconstruction module.
A truly analogue sounding digital device. However I now think that I've finally found a DAC that surpasses this analogue like sound with equal parts verve and relaxation. I'm trying really hard to describe the sound and feeling deficient in vocabulary to explain how it differs from the AA sound whilst still keeping the essence of that sound.

Briefly, the soundstage is more expansive, resolution greater, noise floor lower and palpability greater. All these attributes are enhanced with an increase in volume whereas with the AA the sound occasionally became congested and course.

I had the GG, with the EML45s, insitu for a week or so but even though I appreciated the increase in SQ over the AA felt that ultimately the GG wasn't for me. Just something 'not quite right'.

This DAC8DSD has won me over with both PCM and finally DSD and honestly prefer it over the AA. The real development will be when I get to hear everything upsampled to DSD512, currently maxing out at DSD128 and PCM384.

I'm gushing over this new DAC so please take it as one man's opinion and await the reviews and comments from Munich. It may just be worth a try in your system with the Aurender or the soon to be released SGMS against the GG/AA and your comments would be greatly appreciated from fellow WBF readers.

Spirit will be popping around next week for a listen and I want his honest opinion, even at this half way mark towards full server and full upsampling.

It's even got a headphone out and I pick up my HEX tomorrow, oh happy days.

Blue58
Ps. Full report on the XDs please.

First of all I would like to apologize for my poor english. If you feel " deficient in vocabulary " being native speaker , what can I say?
My sons did their IB in St Clares , Oxford and during the graduation ceremony I saw the sentence like this " there is no point to learn to foreign languages if you have nothing of interest to say."
So I want to believe that what I would like to share compensate my flaws in english
I hesitate with my final comments about Mezzo XD because I am still not completely happy with the settings of the bass units.
I have 14 different settings until now but I am positive that I can do better.
The only thing which is clear to me- those Mezzo have potential to sound really, really well.
Back to the thread, I will try to get this T+A DAC for audition at home asap.

 

[marslo]

Hi Mariusz, I have heard the Shelter Harmony on the Kuzma XL4 with the 4p arm. Sounded really good. It had the sweeter texture, more neutral than Koetsu, but more towards Koetsu than to the neutral Ortofon A90 types. Is that how it is in your system?

Ked, I have not an extensive expertise with carts like Koetsu or Shelter.
Before Shelter I had for a few years Phase Tech P3G and my findings are in line with the review of Marshall Nack:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue50/transrotor.htm
Btw I decided to get the Shelter cart on the base of this review. After around 100 h Shelter shows his strengths- very detailed sound with the natural timbre .I still try to find the best settings of the Groove + SRX mk2 phono stage and I am sure it will take some time to find the best synergy with the rest of the setup.

 

[hifial]

This DAC8DSD has won me over with both PCM and finally DSD and honestly prefer it over the AA. The real development will be when I get to hear everything upsampled to DSD512, currently maxing out at DSD128 and PCM384.

You honestly do not know what you are missing. The difference between up-sampling to DSD128 vs to DSD512 on the DAC8DSD is NOT subtle or a small increase in sound quality.
This is based on using HQ Player.

Though, I should not give you too high of expectations. On second thought, it is very subtle. You will have to strain to hear the difference, lol.

 

[bmoura]

I still put the best DSD native recordings from Fone above PCM for their outstanding palpability , 3 D sound stage and organic sound.

Yes the Fone DSD Downloads are very good. Check out their "Pink Panther & Friends" DSD Download. Very nice.
https://fonerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/SACD154-the-pink-panther-friends