The truth about vinyl.vinyl vs digital

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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You may form a hypothesis with such subjective data but what you said for the most part is not true, and is certainly misleading.

This isn't debatable unless you think you can get everyone to agree to change the scientific method, which is here for your reference:


There is therefore a clear delineation between subjective and objective, unless you think you can get everyone to agree to change the definitions of the words. I'll leave it up to you to google the definitions.

The "measurements battle" will end when science defines the precise relationship between measured phenomenon and subjective experience. If you think this will never happen I disagree, I think it's just a matter of time. Currently it's stalled out because there is little financial incentive to do the work except for audio businesses, and they will only share information if they think it'll help with marketing.

I understand why you said what you did but IMO it's not helpful because it's not true.
Whew! You certainly said a mouthful.
Fortunately not all scientific research is funded with an eye toward making a profitable prodict.
I think a huge impediment is the claim that we know it all or what we don't is not worth knowing.
 
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wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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I think people actually enjoy analog forms of noise and distortion. Why? I think the origin of the sound is more natural... and in this I mean from the natural world. Digital distortions and noise is subjectively harsher sounding and is much more likely to cause listening fatigue, maybe the sound is unnatural, like a synthetic chemical that our bodies are not used to. Another reason is acclimation... we're used to hearing analog forms of distortion.

In any case I think the reasons are mostly psychoacoustic, how our bodies and brain interpret sound.

Some anecdotal evidence... for a long time now analog distortion such as surface noise or tape hiss, clicks and pops, even a distortion effect that mimics a woofer with blown surrounds have been added to some genres of music, it's very common. EDIT: on the other hand I could not see anyone ever adding that harsh 90's digital sound to music on purpose. ;)
For me, pops and clicks are pretty much un-acceptable as a part of music playback-- analog or not.

And I think the dead horse of bad 90's digital needs to be dropped from these discussions. It's 2021. Should we really be comparing first pressings from the "Golden Age" to 90's digital?

I've found my zone in a highly optimized digital playback system with "natural" sounding speakers. I have no trouble finding exceptional music with great sound quality from the incomprehensibly large catalog in Qobuz. If I come across a crappily recorded/mastered album , I simply go elsewhere in the music universe.

The notion of searching out good LP's, keeping them pristine and being confined to a relatively limited collection of music doesn't appeal to me. But I can see how that path would be fun and satisfying. To each his own.
 
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DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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For me, pops and clicks are pretty much un-acceptable as a part of music playback-- analog or not.

And I think the dead horse of bad 90's digital needs to be dropped from these discussions. It's 2021. Should we really be comparing first pressings from the "Golden Age" to 90's digital?

I've found my zone in a highly optimized digital playback system with "natural" sounding speakers. I have no trouble finding exceptional music with great sound quality from the incomprehensibly large catalog in Qobuz. If I come across a crappily recorded/mastered album , I simply go elsewhere in the music universe.

The notion of searching out good LP's, keeping them pristine and being confined to a relatively limited collection of music doesn't appeal to me. But I can see how that path would be fun and satisfying. To each his own.


The context for bringing up 90's digital was to compare it with analog distortions added to many genres of music. It is very common to add analog "noise" to music while nobody is likely to add typical digital noise to their sound on purpose. I did not intend to say modern digital has any relation, sorry for the confusion.

The point is that analog noise is is much more benign vs digital. I think this explains it's appeal, at least in part.

Personally, I'm too young to have accumulated vinyl, turntables, etc. and there's absolutely no chance I'll invest in it now... unless someone wants to give it to me. :) I think the best digital is very good and I totally agree with the last 2 paragraphs of your post. You can buy a great digital setup for much less $ vs analog and the music you can enjoy is limitless. Even MSB DACs seem like a good deal vs a top-end tt + phono preamp, etc...
 
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thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
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The point is that analog noise is is much more benign vs digital. I think this explains it's appeal, at least in part.

Makes little sense to me trying to judge "noise", and its effect on enjoying music, in any way. I have numerous RVG mastered Blue Note CD's (amongst others) and the analogue tape hiss is quite apparent.
 

Pacha

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Apr 23, 2014
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As a relatively young audiophile (35) these topics are always interesting, but I rarely ever comment. I have no nostalgia regarding vinyl. I was 25 when I heard my first turntable. It was a terrible setup but there was something that seemed right to the sound. I thought to myself, there is potential here. And down the rabbit hole I went. I have had to learn with trial and error, no mentors (although I should have put effort into seeking one out) on how to get things right. I am still learning with forums like WBF. As someone who works around technology and robotics in my day job, the last thing I want to mess with when I get home is a computer. There is a certain satisfaction in working through the mechanical challenges of vinyl playback.

When I sit down for a listening session I keep my phone in a separate room, as this is my time to perform a tech cleanse. During the few times I have invited a friend over to listen, they are typically on their phones half the time. I think my generation has a tough time focusing on the task of "listening". The Artists that release these works of art deserve my full attention. An enlightening comment a friend made was "This is too real, it is giving me anxiety". I do not think many people in my generation have actually heard a good playback system. We didn't grow up with a stereo being the main source of entertainment. That was split between the TV, video games, computers and mobile devices.

10 years later I do not regret my decision to go strictly vinyl. Those Ah-Ha moments make it worth it and I am still finding great records, both original and reissue.
I too have an analog only system, I'm a semi retired Apple Systems Engineer and as a retirement job I work at a local high school as their IT manager. I deal with 1400 computers, 2000 Chromebooks and 5 servers when at work. At home after work I like to sip on some good single malt and listen to my LPs or R2R tapes.
 

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