TimbreDynamics Cable Lifters

Puma Cat

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And why is it OK for cables to rest on lifters but not on rack or floor surfaces? How do the electrons behave differently in one scenario vs the other?
Electrons do not carry the signal. Electrons barely move in a conductor in the presence of an electric field potential. The signal is a transverse electromagnetic wave that propogates down the cable.

Cable elevators (can) do two things: 1) by lifting them off the floor, they prevent imparting vibration from the floor into the dielectric of the cable. This vibration imparts triboeletric noise in the dielectric, which has an effect on the signal, and thus has an audible impact on audio quality. 2) depending on their design, they can mitigate the static e-field that is created when a cable is lifted off the floor. This e-field is measurable with a e-field meter. This e-field also has an audible impact because once again, you guessed it, they act as a NOISE FACTOR on the signal EM wave propogating down the cable. One therefore, ideally needs an elevator that dissipates this static e-field that occurs when lifing a cable off the floor. An example are the Shunyata DF-SS cable elevators, which have a static electricity dissipating material in them, their Zr-Ca material, that dissipates the static e-field. This also provides an audible improvement in audio quality compared to a "standard" cable elevator. I used to have some 3-D printed cable elevators, and when I got the DF-SS, they made quite a noticeable improvement in audio quality over a "standard" cable elevator. Based on their design, it looks like the Nordost cable elevators may dissipate the static field as well...this is a hypothesis, though.
 
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bazelio

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Electrons oscillate; they don't move along the length of the wire, but they still "carry the signal". Have you taken some e-field measurements? I'm sure folks would be interested in this empirical data. I would. How will a shielded cable behave vs a non-shielded cable? Why would elevators need to dissipate static electricity if the cable is lifted off the floor and thus no longer vibrating against the floor and creating triboelectric noise? I mean, presumably the large contact area of the cable resting on the floor is what (could theoretically be) the source of noise that is significant enough to be heard vs the relatively minimal contact area of the cable resting on intermittent cable elevators.

Edit: Let's further assume that a particular elevator *is* dissipating static charge. If this elevator is not connected to ground, then the static charge will build up over time and the device will become ineffective until it is discharged. Or static charge will never actually accumulate in the material at all, since it has no path to ground, and it might have a path to ground through the cable....
 
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Puma Cat

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Feb 20, 2011
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SF East Bay Area
Electrons oscillate; they don't move along the length of the wire, but they still "carry the signal". Have you taken some e-field measurements? I'm sure folks would be interested in this empirical data. I would. How will a shielded cable behave vs a non-shielded cable? Why would elevators need to dissipate static electricity if the cable is lifted off the floor and thus no longer vibrating against the floor and creating triboelectric noise? I mean, presumably the large contact area of the cable resting on the floor is what (could theoretically be) the source of noise that is significant enough to be heard vs the relatively minimal contact area of the cable resting on intermittent cable elevators.
No, the electrons do not carry the signal, the EM wave carries the signal. Moreover, its the tranverse EM wave the carries the signal, the longitudinal EM wave is a noise factor; this is what is removed by Shunyata's TAP device in their ICs and Omega digital cables.

Furthermore, the Vp of the EM wave is frequency-dependent. Read this paper by Galen Garies of Belden/Iconoclast. https://www.iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/vpandimpedance.pdf

The average drift velocity of electrons in a circuit is <0.1mm/sec. Watch this video by Veritasium:

There are 2 factors that impart noise to a speaker or power cable cable normally resting on the floor: 1) vibration, which imparts triboelectric noise. This is also why the Shunyata and Nordost cable elevators use a small contact area when supporting the cable. 2) a static electricity field, which is created when you lift the cable off the floor (to remove the impact of the vibration imparted to them by the floor). The Shunyata and Nordost cable elevators are designed to dissipate this e-field when a cable is lifted off the floor. The materials or design of these cables elevators is what dissipates this e-field. In the case of the Shunyata DF-SS elevators, it is the Zr-Ca beads inside the pyramidal bases.
 
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bazelio

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Without electrons, there's no EM wave. I think we're talking semantics here and settling on a preferred layman's description doesn't lend anything to the topic of cable riser efficacy.

Back to the rest of the discussion.... Static is created not only by lifting the cable off the floor. Vibration creates movement, movement creates friction, friction creates static charge. Static charge may effect the oscillating behavior of electrons. Essentially. So limiting contact area of the "victim" will limit this effect. The question has always been how significant is the effect. I.e. how do the electrons behave in one scenario vs the other. I don't think we're any closer to having an answer.

PS I once thought I'd add wood blocks under my speaker cables. But not because of triboelectric effects, rather because it'd be easier to sweep dust under and around the cables if they were off the floor.
 

Puma Cat

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2011
243
362
970
SF East Bay Area
Without electrons, there's no EM wave. I think we're talking semantics here and settling on a preferred layman's description doesn't lend anything to the topic of cable riser efficacy.
We're not talking semantics, rather, discussing physics. For example, visible light is an EM wave; there are no electrons involved. You can also produce an electromagnetic field using a magnet. No electrons involved there, either. Regardless, It's the EM wave that carries the signal, not the electrons, and this is why cable elevators are important.
Specifically,
Energy is transferred through empty space outside the wires
The essential point is that energy is transferred through empty space around (and NOT in) the wires of an electric circuit via an electromagnetic field called the Poynting field, named after the 19th century English physicist John Poynting. The direction of the Poynting field depends on electrons distributed over the surfaces of the wires in the circuit.


poynting.png


Back to the rest of the discussion.... Static is created not only by lifting the cable off the floor. Vibration creates movement, movement creates friction, friction creates static charge. Static charge may effect the oscillating behavior of electrons. Essentially. So limiting contact area of the "victim" will limit this effect. The question has always been how significant is the effect. I.e. how do the electrons behave in one scenario vs the other. I don't think we're any closer to having an answer.
If you do the the experiment with well-designed cable elevators, you'll have the answer.
 
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bazelio

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Ah! So now you have another out! If I've experimented with cable risers and tried to ascertain audible benefit but not realized any, then the cable risers I've used must not have been "well-designed". :D Yet, dissipation of static charge into a non-grounded riser - if that's what makes a riser "well-designed" - makes no sense and I see no counter-argument there. Further, as to the effect of risers on shielded vs non-shielded cables, what do you think the science has to say?
 

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