To Loom or Not to Loom?

[Ron Resnick]

Many audiophiles believe that when wiring up one’s system it is best to use the same model and brand of speaker cables and interconnects and power cables throughout the system. These folks believe that the sonic goodness in that model and brand of cable is maximized by having all of the wires the same.

Other audiophiles believe that whatever error or coloration is exhibited by a particular model and brand of cable is magnified if you use the same model and brand of cable throughout the system. These folks believe that there is no way that one model and brand of cable can be the best-sounding connector between all possible pairs of components.

What do you do? Do you use one model and brand throughout your entire system, or do you mix and match cables? Why?

Have you ever compared both methodologies in your own system?

 

[marty]

I see no compelling reason that one path is necessarily better than the other. Use the pieces that work best with your own system. If it turns out they are from the same manufacturer, fine. If not, then they're not. Sort of irrelevant as I see it. i'm currently using an interconnect mixture of Cardas, Tara and Masterbuilt which was determined by rotating several pieces in and out to see what worked best at individual loci. Speaker cables are Masterbuilt Ultras and I have not experimented beyond that once they replaced MIT HD 90.2's. However, throw in a Stealth for USB and one can conclude that the wiring in my system is definitely a mutt, not a purebred!

 

[DaveyF]

With a highly revealing cable, like Nordost, I have found that it is best to use a complete loom. Inserting another less revealing cable, usually means that the total effect of the Nordost cable is diminished. IME, few cables can match the speed or resolution of Nordost. I have spoken to a number of folks who don't like Nordost, because the only way they have heard the cable is mixed with another brand, which has resulted in a loss of SQ.

 

[Al M.]

I voted one model and brand, ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects and SMSG speaker cables (both same material, matching). Yet with a caveat, power cables are stock; I don't believe in fancy power cables (I have a medical grade isolation transformer for my digital front end).

I want utmost transparency, I agree with Davey that in this case mixing only results in losses. I do *not* believe in using cables as tone control, this results in loss of transparency too. If you want to modulate tone, room acoustics and speaker setup would be my first choices.

 

[Al M.]

Oh forgot, digital AES/EBU cable between transport and DAC is MIT, different brand. But I view digital and analog signal cables as different entities.

 

[audioquattr]

For 5 years i had everything wired with Transparent XL MM, Speakercables, all Interlinks and all Powercables.
After some time i tried some different cables. Some better some worse. Some stayed so i could try them again with a component change.

I have had several Kubula Sosna Emotion, speakercable and interlinks (which i found very coloured compared to all after several compares), Elation interlinks (which were ok), Kharma Enigma Extreme Signature (which were very nice, good detail, a little bit warm), Shunyata Anaconda SC and Interlinks and PC's. Shunyata was good but not best for my systems. Only PC's were very good, each time i changed with others i came back to the Shunyata's. Later upgraded to higher models of Shunyata.
Since 2-3 years i have tried and owned lot of Audioquest (Wild , Redwood) for Interlinks and Speakercables and upgraded them for better ones. They bettered all the cables i had before. Right now all AQ Wel, all SC and interlinks. Only power allmost all Shunyata.
I tried AQ hurricane and Wel but prefered Shunyata.

What i have learned that for ME it's not necessary to have the same brand all through the system.
For me it could be 3 different groups, 1 Interlinks, 2 Speakercable and 3 Powercords.

What i also have learned, try cables for a longer time in and out through at least a few days and with different songs before coming to conclusions.
What you like for the first moment can be tiresome for the next day.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I happen to use a Wireworld Platinum loom for all the signal cables from USB and bnc digital, jumpers, interconnects, and speaker cables but if I needed to mix it up and things sounded better then all good. That said the quality that the WW plats brings to my long term appreciation has proven for me a tipping point into a place where I no longer feel like upgrading the signal cables I have.

I also use a mix of similarly spec’d power cables throughout (all from Shunyata) and once again if I trialled something else and loved it I feel confident enough to be able to add something else into the mix. But the balance that I have built by having WW plats for signal and Shunyata for PCs is that I have very comfortably left the whole cable conundrum behind. Not because there may or may not be better options out there but just because I have been unreservedly happy with these cables that I have worked hard towards being able to afford and have long since reached a complete happy place with them so the loom will stay as an essential fixture for the system. This combo just breathes music into all my gear.

 

[Ultrafast69]

My voyage in this area primarily has been with Nordost hearing and believing into their theory, then moving up the line to their Reference series Valhalla 2. This includes adding their Quantum QRT package as well.

Ansuz was discovered later and for the sake of curiosity I introduced a couple of C2 power cables for change and extremely pleased at the SQ and that they were less expensive.

Overall I am please with Nordost in terms of sound quality, however, the cost is flat out ridiculous so much that I would never tell any non-audiophile what this wire costs, 5 figures will easily cost me 7.

Veering a bit, am I’m living in a closet fully exposed?

 

[DaveC]

It depends on the cables in question.

If you have relatively neutral cables they can be added to any system without issue. This is my goal.

However, if you have cables with a certain character that are less than neutral the results will be difficult to predict.

An example is the interconnect cable I used to make with Duelund silver wire. I offered the cable because it had a sweet, warm sound while maintaining resolution beyond what most copper cables are capable of and cost less than OCC silver. A unique mix of attributes... However, this was achieved using a silk and mineral oil insulation that had it's own sound. This worked with some systems but was a disaster with other systems. Meanwhile my OCC silver/gold cables get extremely consistent reviews, and there has literally never been a system where the D4 did not work well in. Some prefer more warmth, so I eventually offered a D5, but this is a slight difference that doesn't effect the overall neutral character of the cable.

For brands mentioned so far mixing other cables with Nordost isn't a great idea. If you like Nordost sound then great, but it's not a neutral sounding cable. OTOH, Wireworld platinum is one of the most neutral cables available and should work fine with most any system, it's made by the same company that makes the wire for my D4, D5, and SMSG speaker cables, you just pay several times the price and the tone won't be as accurate.

In conclusion there's no way to know upfront unless you're very familiar with the system and how the cables sound, and even then you may end up wrong. You need to try these things out, there is no way around it. Those who are willing to buy something like cables without trying them in their own system, it's like reading reviews of a car and ordering it on the advise of the auto reviewer. It's a huge risk that it'll really work out for you.

 

[Speedskater]

It seems that some audiophiles have repurposed the word 'loom'.

 

[Steve Williams]

I've always used a full loom of the same cable as I want the sonic signature confined to the one brand of cable. Anything beyond becomes confusing for me to discern what cable is causing what sound

 

[microstrip]

I voted one model and brand, ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects and SMSG speaker cables (both same material, matching). Yet with a caveat, power cables are stock; I don't believe in fancy power cables (I have a medical grade isolation transformer for my digital front end).

I want utmost transparency, I agree with Davey that in this case mixing only results in losses. I do *not* believe in using cables as tone control, this results in loss of transparency too. If you want to modulate tone, room acoustics and speaker setup would be my first choices.

We all seem to desire having a system with great transparency and neutrality - such nice words - but in the end suffer from the usual audiophile syndrome - considering our preferred coloration is transparency and others preferences are nasty colorations. I love tube electronics, but I would be the last one to tell any one they are utmost transparent or neutral.

We pick cables that complement our systems according to our preferences. Although it can be done mixing cable brands, IMHO it is easier and probably more successful to do it sticking with just one brand. However getting complete looms to try for a reasonable time is not usual. Availability and logistics are major factors in this game.

Again IMHO debating cables in terms of "tone control" is an highly misleading simplification. Cables do not change significantly frequency response. We can consider them dark, bright, having slam, slow, warm, thin sounding, but not as a tone control.

My choice of cable brand depends on the speakers and electronics I am using - I have no absolute preference. And budget also has a strong influence!

 

[microstrip]

It seems that some audiophiles have repurposed the word 'loom'.

Yes, and you comment on it every time and I answer ...

 

[Al M.]

For brands mentioned so far mixing other cables with Nordost isn't a great idea. If you like Nordost sound then great, but it's not a neutral sounding cable. OTOH, Wireworld platinum is one of the most neutral cables available and should work fine with most any system, it's made by the same company that makes the wire for my D4, D5, and SMSG speaker cables, you just pay several times the price and the tone won't be as accurate.

That's why I bought your D4 and SMSG cables. Incredible bang for the buck, and in absolute terms I have not yet heard anything that offers better micro-resolution of timbre (string tone etc.). The neutrality and tonal coherence throughout the frequency range also becomes more and more obvious as my system improves, the latest improvement being my new Sound Anchor Signature speaker stands.

In conclusion there's no way to know upfront unless you're very familiar with the system and how the cables sound, and even then you may end up wrong. You need to try these things out, there is no way around it. Those who are willing to buy something like cables without trying them in their own system, it's like reading reviews of a car and ordering it on the advise of the auto reviewer. It's a huge risk that it'll really work out for you.

I'm glad you gave me, like every potential customer, the opportunity to first try out your cables in my system.

 

[Al M.]

Again IMHO debating cables in terms of "tone control" is an highly misleading simplification. Cables do not change significantly frequency response. We can consider them dark, bright, having slam, slow, warm, thin sounding, but not as a tone control.

It is a highly misleading simplification to claim that cables do not significantly change frequency response. Yes, in static measurements they probably don't, but music is not a static signal. If we can consider cables dark, bright, warm etc. sounding as you say, then they *do* act as tone control -- and they are used by audiophiles as such.

 

[DaveyF]

Gents, ( and ladies if there are any on this forum... ), I would like to know what we consider to be 'neutral' sound. Is there really any such thing! I ask this, as my musician brain is very confused with what this term means when to comes to reproduced music. Is the sound of my Taylor guitar reproduced through your system...at levels that are never going to be the same as what I am playing 'live' -neutral? Is the same sound of my EC Strat played through your system...neutral ( to what...the sound picked up by the microphone, the sound modded by the engineers board, the sound of my particular PUP ( pick up for those less into these things) in use that day, the sound of my cables from guitar to amp...which BTW matter immensely!)
and so forth...
If we are listening to a full orchestra in a large hall ( which we have no chance of truly imitating in our considerably less than hall sized rooms) can we really state that the sound reproduced is 'neutral'?

 

[Speedskater]

Yes, and you comment on it every time and I answer ...

Remember, if someone is using Google translate to read this thread, they are going to wonder just what knitting cloth has to do with it.

 

[microstrip]

It is a highly misleading simplification to claim that cables do not significantly change frequency response. Yes, in static measurements they probably don't, but music is not a static signal. If we can consider cables dark, bright, warm etc. sounding as you say, then they *do* act as tone control -- and they are used by audiophiles as such.

Please show us any "non static" measurement that changes frequency response. Unless you want to re-define one of the few technical terms that has a clear meaning to every one, I can not see how cables significantly change frequency response.

Distortion can change our subjective perception of frequency response, but does not change frequency response.

BTW, the audio industry uses many "non static" measurements to emulate music behavior but they do not show in magazine reviews because they are of complex interpretation. The modern Audio Precision analyzers are a lot more than power, distortion, noise and frequency response meters.

 

[KeithR]

i think most people mix and match - particularly power cords vs ICs/SCs

 

[DaveC]

That's why I bought your D4 and SMSG cables. Incredible bang for the buck, and in absolute terms I have not yet heard anything that offers better micro-resolution of timbre (string tone etc.). The neutrality and tonal coherence throughout the frequency range also becomes more and more obvious as my system improves, the latest improvement being my new Sound Anchor Signature speaker stands.

Thanks, I'm happy my cables can contribute!