Two reissue high rez Beethoven Symphonies boxsets

[CKKeung]

Both are classics!
Both are conducted by maestros.
Both are decades old (1959 vs 1960s).
Both are high rez reissues (hybrid sacd vs BR-audio).

What I can say is :
Many things in music and audio are old but not senile.
Actually the older the more lovely!


The Bruno Walter boxset is a must-buy, as it seems to be a Japanese limited edition.

 

[Jazzhead]

Wow CK ... Is this from CD Japan , any link to the BW box set ?

 

[CKKeung]

Wow CK ... Is this from CD Japan , any link to the BW box set ?

A friend bought a few boxes at Tower Records in Japan for us.
A limited edition.
https://tower.jp/item/4952055/?????????????-?????????-[7SACD-Hybrid?2CD]?????????

Please see if you can buy it via Tower Records' webstore.

BTW the explanation on the Tower Records website is interesting :
" ... all of the original analog 3-track masters in New York's studios are kept in a vast tape archive in the mountains of Pennsylvania under strict temperature and humidity control.
After carefully repairing an extremely delicate analog tape, we carefully played back and picked up the sound under optimal conditions, and remixed it into stereo.

John McClure was involved with in the early days of the CD, new remasters have been performed at least twice during the CD era. Remixes that emphasized the woodwind part), and the low-pitched, bright sound was recognized as a characteristic of Walter-Columbian sound.

However, what is actually recorded in the master is a calm sound with a low center of gravity, and it can be said that it is a heavy European sound that Walter aimed ..."

 

[CKKeung]

The Tower Records in Shibuya District of Tokyo is fascinating!
It occupies a whole building and there are separate floors for the various genres of music. For example classical and jazz got their own floors.
There are many Japanese domestic reissues not available elsewhere in the world.
Music lovers can spend a whole day there.

 

[asiufy]

I wonder if these (specially the Bruno Walter set) are the same as the hi-res downloads available, that were put out in 2019 as well... The japanese have a preference for SACD, so I'm thinking they just pressed these hi-res PCM files onto SACDs there...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

agree these are excellent recordings; i opened a thread on these......last March. a great set and wonderful 24/96 files i still sample regularly. the original recordings were done in 61' and 62'.

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/...arajans-tonight-in-96-24-and-loving-it.27581/

then i proceeded to buy the original vinyl box sets too.

 

[CKKeung]

agree these are excellent recordings; i opened a thread on these......last March. a great set and wonderful 24/96 files i still sample regularly. the original recordings were done in 61' and 62'.
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/...arajans-tonight-in-96-24-and-loving-it.27581/
then i proceeded to buy the original vinyl box sets too.

Thanks Mike.
I guess most of the classical music lovers own this Karajan 60s Beethoven Sym set.
And for many of them, it had a speacial meaning : it was the door via which they entered into the world of classical music.

BTW I personally like the Bruno Walter set a bit more.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks Mike.
I guess most of the classical music lovers own this Karajan 60s Beethoven Sym set.
And for many of them, it had a speacial meaning : it was the door via which they entered into the world of classical music.

BTW I personally like the Bruno Walter set a bit more.

i like the Karajan early 60's cycle. but like others too.

my.......all time 'desert island' only one recording to live with forever....... is Bruno Walter's Beethoven 6th Symphony. it just touches me like no other recording. (my system really likes it too). i get emotional just thinking about listening to it.

but there are so many faces of Beethoven.

i maybe have over 30 Beethoven 9th Symphony recordings; and like most of them for one reason or another.

there is no right or wrong to it.......for me anyway. i should mention that while i listen to mostly classical music, i don't really know much about it. so i don't hold myself up as any expert......i either like something or not.....but often cannot really say why exactly. i try not to think about it too much and just enjoy it.

 

[astrotoy]

The Walter Columbia Symphony Beethoven Eroica (3) and Pastorale (6) are both long time HP TAS Superdiscs. I have been fortunate in having 15ips 2 track tapes of the Walter 1, 3, 4, 6, 7,and 8.

The 1962 Karajan Beethoven Box set was the first classical vinyl that I ever bought. It was the fall of 1963 when I was a Freshman in college. My college bookstore had a large record section and the box was in a large display of the album, with a stack of boxes - $18.95 or maybe $18.98 for the eight record set. This was the year after the set was first released and it had already won the Grand Prix du Disc from France, the sticker prominently placed on the front cover. This definitely got me into record collecting - I didn't even have a turntable in my college dorm room. Got an AR turntable with a Shure cartridge, a cheap Lafayette amp and headphones and I was in business. I also got a college job to pay for my new habit. I would type out my composition papers listening to the symphonies in order - usually getting done with a paper by somewhere in the eighth symphony - occasionally well into the 9th.

Larry

 

[Ovenmitt]

The Walter Columbia Symphony Beethoven Eroica (3) and Pastorale (6) are both long time HP TAS Superdiscs. I have been fortunate in having 15ips 2 track tapes of the Walter 1, 3, 4, 6, 7,and 8.

The 1962 Karajan Beethoven Box set was the first classical vinyl that I ever bought. It was the fall of 1963 when I was a Freshman in college. My college bookstore had a large record section and the box was in a large display of the album, with a stack of boxes - $18.95 or maybe $18.98 for the eight record set. This was the year after the set was first released and it had already won the Grand Prix du Disc from France, the sticker prominently placed on the front cover. This definitely got me into record collecting - I didn't even have a turntable in my college dorm room. Got an AR turntable with a Shure cartridge, a cheap Lafayette amp and headphones and I was in business. I also got a college job to pay for my new habit. I would type out my composition papers listening to the symphonies in order - usually getting done with a paper by somewhere in the eighth symphony - occasionally well into the 9th.

Larry

Such a great post! Thank you for the story....

 

[Lowrider75]

I wonder if these (specially the Bruno Walter set) are the same as the hi-res downloads available, that were put out in 2019 as well... The japanese have a preference for SACD, so I'm thinking they just pressed these hi-res PCM files onto SACDs there...

The Karajan "Beethoven 9 Symphonies" (same cover art) is available on Qobuz in 24/96. Would these be from the same master as the Japanese boxed set?
The sound is very nice.

 

[CKKeung]

The Karajan "Beethoven 9 Symphonies" (same cover art) is available on Qobuz in 24/96. Would these be from the same master as the Japanese boxed set?
The sound is very nice.

I guess so.
I quite trust Qobuz.

 

[Lowrider75]

Agree, they most likely are.

 

[LL21]

For those who missed it, for the same price as the special remaster above of Bruno Walters' 9 Beethoven Symphonies...is (i think?) 77 discs all remastered in 2019 of all of his Columbia, NY Philharmonic and Philadephia Orchestra work under the Sony Classical label...including these 9 symphony performances.

I cannot say if they are the same remaster, but the description suggests all new remasters on 31 stereo albums and 29 mono recordings remastered at 24/192...done in 2019.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07MWXGCWL/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The Karajan "Beethoven 9 Symphonies" (same cover art) is available on Qobuz in 24/96. Would these be from the same master as the Japanese boxed set?
The sound is very nice.

downloading the files should sound even better yet. depends on your digital set up of course. every time i've loved a streaming recording, so bought the file, i have found the files were closer to the music.

is the difference important enough to pay for the file? the answer would vary person to person and depend on how important that recording was. and there is no guarantee how long the streaming service would have that file, or how long term you would have that streaming service.

 

[Lowrider75]

downloading the files should sound even better yet. depends on your digital set up of course. every time i've loved a streaming recording, so bought the file, i have found the files were closer to the music.

is the difference important enough to pay for the file? the answer would vary person to person and depend on how important that recording was. and there is no guarantee how long the streaming service would have that file, or how long term you would have that streaming service.

So true about how long albums will remain in the streaming service library.

Now, here's the confusing part regarding these recordings.
Here are our 1963 remasters in 24/96 and hybid SACD, released July 10, 2014...
https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-B...-von-Karajan-The-9-Symphonies/release/6415590

And here are the 1963 hirez remasters released in 2003 (which I own)...
https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-Karajan-Berliner-Philharmoniker-The-Symphonies/release/3344481

The difference is the 2003 hybrid SACDs have the 9 symphonies in order on the discs.
So, the Japanese boxed set has extras and is released on Blu-Ray, but it seems to me they are all cut from the same master.
Another case of record label marketing to sell us the same recordings in a different package??

 

[LL21]

So true about how long albums will remain in the streaming service library.

Now, here's the confusing part regarding these recordings.
Here are our 1963 remasters in 24/96 and hybid SACD, released July 10, 2014...
https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-B...-von-Karajan-The-9-Symphonies/release/6415590

And here are the 1963 hirez remasters released in 2003 (which I own)...
https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-Karajan-Berliner-Philharmoniker-The-Symphonies/release/3344481

The difference is the 2003 hybrid SACDs have the 9 symphonies in order on the discs.
So, the Japanese boxed set has extras and is released on Blu-Ray, but it seems to me they are all cut from the same master.
Another case of record label marketing to sell us the same recordings in a different package??

I think i looked those up as well at some point in the past and came to the same conclusion. I also own the 2003. However, in this latest case, the suggestion is that these remasters were redone in 2019?

See Presto Music suggesting it "is an update on 2003 remaster"

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8042445--beethoven-9-symphonies

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KKXOT54/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[ack]

Man, how I miss Tower Records... I would spend literally 8 hours on Saturdays here at the Boston location back in the 90s...

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Man, how I miss Tower Records... I would spend literally 8 hours on Saturdays here at the Boston location back in the 90s...

You have no idea my friend, used to spend full days at the one on the Sunset strip. Back then the building across the street was for classical only, you know to keep the rich snobs separate from those rock and roller delinquents.

Never stopped us.

Thanks guys for the new to me music, maybe I can finally appreciate classical again and get over my apparent aversion.

 

[GSOphile]

For the Karajan set, I'm wondering if the new set on CD is the same as the CD layer on the DG hybrid SACD set remastered in 2003. Insights?