Vacuum type RCMs, what do you use for a wetting agent in your final rinse?

[rich121]

Would like to know what would be the least disruptive wetting agent to use and a good mixture ratio with distilled water?

I am just about done putting my vintage Keith Monks Gemini (dual platter) RCM back together after completely modding/upgrading it.
I've had it for a few decades and fought with keeping the final rinse water on the record... instead, it would mostly fling off, not adhering to the record.

To help with this, and to make the machine operate better I decided to slow the thing down by half!
Originally, the platter speed was 100RPM, now both platters spin at approximately 55RPM.

I replaced both the arm wand motor and the thread spooler motors (originals were 1RPM) with 1/2RPM Heavy Duty industrial motors... they will surely outlast me.. in fact, the original 1970's motors are still working!
The results should produce a much more controlled RCM.

The original time it took for the arm wand to go from the label to the outer rim of a record was around 60 seconds.
Now it will take double that time at 2 minutes, but much more controlled... 100RPM was just too fast for a platter speed.

I also replaced/upgraded the vacuum pump with a new modern KNF brand, same as the newer top of the line Keith Monk RCMs use.
And, as a final touch... I added a vacuum gauge.

Between the Keith Monks machine and the Degritter I purchased a few months ago, these should make a great combination.

Rick

 

[rich121]

Anyone?

 

[tima]

... what do you use for a wetting agent in your final rinse?

A wetting agent is a surfactant designed to reduce surface tension, to reduce, in our case, the adherence or bonding of a solution to the record. This ties to the "contact angle" of a drop of liguid on a solid surface and the relative wettability of that surface, but we don't need to get into the details.

My suggestion is to use no rinse agent in a final rinse. Or put differently, to my knowledge there are no rinse agents that do not leave some amount of NVR, non-volatile residue behind. The goal of a final rinse is to remove any residue left on the record during the cleaning process.

That said ...

I used Lloyd Walker's Prelude system for a couple years when cleaning with my Loricraft PRC-3 vacuum-based cleaner. Prelude is a four step sequence with the final steps being, first Walker's "Ultra Pure Laboratory Water" rinse, followed by his "High Resolution Rinse". I asked Walker about the latter solution and he said it consists of "ultra-pure water, a teeny bit of alcohol and 1% of a secret ingredient." If the alcohol is high-purity IPA (isopropyl alcohol, say 99.9% pure) that will leave no residue. As for the 1% secret ingredient - well, it's a secret Walker did not disclose. I speculate that 1% secret ingredient might be a rinse agent, but I do not know.

The Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions (AIVS) system concludes most of its multi-step systems with its "Ultra-Pure Water" rinse which is filtered, purified, de-ionized water they make themselves. I believe de-ionized water, lab grade water, or ordinary distilled water should work fine. I compared Nerl Lab Grade Water with the AIVS Ultra-Pure and heard no difference between the two. Actually, also I heard no difference with generic distilled water.

Given the choice I'd probably opt for de-ionized water for a final rinse. (There are several de-ionizers on the market to use at home which provide N gallons (tap-to-deionized) using a replaceable cartridge. People use them to wash their cars to eliminate spotting.)

You can experiement with varying percentages of IPA in the final rinse, I'd try ? 3% to start.

If you choose to experiment with a wetting agent in your final rinse, my suggestion is to use a very small amount, maybe 0.25 - 0.5%. The one I use in my ultrasonic tank is Ilford Ilfotol.

On the other hand, you could use a wetting agent in your cleaning solution, followed by a pure water rinse.

Whatever you choose to try, it is greatly appreciated if you report your results!

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I came across this thread and I am actually quite curious about the results.

 

[Michael Davitt]

I use the Project VC-S vacuum RCM along with a Isonic P4875 Ultra Sonic machine.

When dispensing cleaning fluid or rinsing with distilled water on the Project; these
bottles do an excellent job of covering the groove surface quickly without waste.



I purchased the bottles from a beauty supply store, they are much easier to maneuver than the larger bottles that just lay down one line of fluid. Once the record is moving on the vacuum machine, it treats the recorded surface in one spin. I use two separate MoFi brushes for clean and rinse to avoid cross contamination. Simple and precise.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Ok, so the fluid comes out of the brush as the record spins on the vacuum machine. Smart. Is there any difference between the brushes? One releases less fluid than the other?

 

[twitch]

Reagent grade water and 'L Art du Son' followed with a rinse of 'water' only.

In my Degritter ultra sonic, distilled water and 1-2 ml of the cleaning fluid the came with the machine

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Thanks a lot.
Reagent grade water - I never thought of it this way, but now, when I read your post it felt a little as if it was some serious military equipment.

 

[twitch]

Thanks a lot.
Reagent grade water - I never thought of it this way, but now, when I read your post it felt a little as if it was some serious military equipment.

a wee bit of what's behind (in) it ..............

Reagent Water SDS | MSDS Deionized Water

www.nugentec.com

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Their comment on the website is priceless.
While distilled water and deionized water are fairly common, reagent water is a different kettle of fish. Those types of water may be considered “pure,” but pure is not good enough for reagent water—reagent water must be ultrapure.

 

[twitch]

Their comment on the website is priceless.
While distilled water and deionized water are fairly common, reagent water is a different kettle of fish. Those types of water may be considered “pure,” but pure is not good enough for reagent water—reagent water must be ultrapure.

But of course..............this is the 'What's Best Forum' after all !!