Vishay Z-Foil vs Audio Note Non-Magnetic Resistors

[bazelio]

Ok I’ve installed the silver tants in a way that won’t damage the pcb and I can swap, and it’s definitely smoother and a different kind of warm, the instruments blend better but the detail isn’t as much as silver niobium, the detail in those were extreme, voices were a little heavier the highs and lows were very detailed and dynamic with great depth but for rhythmic music it didn’t work as well. it seemed like it wanted to show you live performances over produced music. The tantalum seems a little rolled off on the highs but it’s song dependant and the tone is great, it also has less bass and overall power than the silver an niobium’s, but those are 2% rated (even though bazilio said they are actually more like 1%) and I’m not sure if that’s what’s causing the loudness difference as my amp uses 1%. There is less low volume detail compared to the niobium’s but again I’ve only just installed them and didn’t give either time to burn in fully. The tants do sound more natural overall in their presentation even though it may have less overall detail it has a better balance between emotion and raw detail and warmth. I’m liking the tants so I will keep them and let them burn in. These are in the input position on my solid state amp just after the coupling caps.

Thanks! Just to be clear, are you comparing silver tants to silver niobiums or is the regular non-silver tantalum in the mix here too?

 

[E.simpson]

Thanks! Just to be clear, are you comparing silver tants to silver niobiums or is the regular non-silver tantalum in the mix here too?

Only comparing silver tants non magnetic to silver niobium non magnetic.
To conclude I think the silver In my rca is what created the extra loudness and power and it was definitely because of the niobium because switching to the copper rca cables volume dropped noticeably, the tants never had this effect when switching between silver and copper rca’s volume stayed somewhat the same maybe a slight difference but not as much as niobium. This means silver niobium resistors are more sensitive to silver on the interconnects or any silver cables leading up to that resistor.

so yes silver niobium’s are analytical, very warm but naturally warm and very listenable, extreme fidelity, resolution, speed, accuracy and tone, more space between sounds and very high low volume details. Bass is strong, mids are strong and so are highs but also in a way, a little smooth. I wouldnt say it’s harsh I would say it lacks emotion and is very real, very unique and powerful resistor but it is slightly rolled off on the highs (song dependant) as it will show you exactly how the recording is with extra realism and a bit of warmth in vocals ect.

the silver tantalum on the other hand is musically enjoyable, great detail but not as much, same for listening levels, fidelity and resolution, natural more relaxed tone that’s more balanced between cold and warm but it’s a lot more musical and emotional compared to the silver niobium’s. I will take back that statement saying the highs are rolled off, they came through after an hour, however they are not as ear fatiguing as Takmans and are much more tonally balanced but still a tad on the brighter side just a tad. They are also not as loud and powerful as the niobium’s and the bass feels a tiny bit bloated but not strong, a little weaker compared to the rest of the frequencies but it’s definitely there, not quite as tight or articulate as the niobiums too but I have a subwoofer for that.

Non of the resistors sound shouty or in your face, the niobiums prefer a more frontal position for its sound production and the tantalum’s prefer the middle position in terms of the musics presentation being forward.
you lose a little high frequency air information with the niobiums but don’t with the tantalum’s hence with it sounding a bit rolled in the highs. Incredible sounding resistors with different jobs completely. I have only tried these in the signal path of my amplifier with resistors in series with input capacitors as they make the biggest difference for me.

I will see how the silver tantalum sounds after 100h but so far it definitely is a huge improvement over takman reys. i tested pretty much every genre on both to get results from best to worst recordings on each genre and the tantalum’s came out on top for still being hifi sounding but just overall so much better for enjoying actual music that digs into your soul deep and you feel it not just hear it. it’s somewhat a great mix of everything

 

[bazelio]

This is a very helpful writeup. Thank you for that.

Incidentally, I've recently rolled cartridge loading resistors and the Takman metal film (Rey) were not good. However, surprisingly, Takman Rex (carbon film) are excellent and are the ones I've settled on using longer term. They're super cheap to try, if you're interested in one more comparison point. I did not try the ANs due to cost, but now, I think I'll try Silver Tants for comparison. Thanks again!

 

[E.simpson]

This is a very helpful writeup. Thank you for that.

Incidentally, I've recently rolled cartridge loading resistors and the Takman metal film (Rey) were not good. However, surprisingly, Takman Rex (carbon film) are excellent and are the ones I've settled on using longer term. They're super cheap to try, if you're interested in one more comparison point. I did not try the ANs due to cost, but now, I think I'll try Silver Tants for comparison. Thanks again!

I was tempted to purchase the normal non magnetic niobiums after 30 h of burn in of the silver tantalum’s and I ended up buying them just because there was a slight upper midrange bump in the tantalum’s and I know how silver can affect sound.

I wanted to see the difference it makes at input so after swapping out for a 1/2 w niobium I was completely stunned. It was as if I upgraded the stock resistors that were inside and they are 15x better overall, no funny silver tint with the frequencies, just extremely beautiful somewhat soft but very detailed and precise tone with less power overall and loudness compared to silver niobiums.

it feels like I’m literally listening to hifi music now with better everything, yes it’s not as powerful and as detailed as silver niobiums they are the most detailed of all, but also most natural sounding, silver tants are more musical sounding and allow more frequencies to pass but have a slight upper mid bump with some slightly bloated sounding but not so powerful bass, and the niobiums are a complete balance head to toe with great detail and resolution. Sound stage and 3d experience with silver niobiums are out of this world, and much better with silver tants compared to niobium.

considering this is a first minute listen I can only imagine how they will get even better, the niobiums I would say are incredible for anything that will seriously effect the signal sound, but the silver tants and niobiums, especially the niobiums are only for specific places.

I can say for frequency balance and musicality and soul niobiums are best, for voices, detail and instruments silver niobiums, and for a mix of detail, musicality, air and with a slight upper mid bump silver tants. The niobiums do “seem” to have a slight roll off but it’s actually just very good at reducing harshness In the treble, the songs that express the highs clear you get the same representation with niobiums, sharp and smooth detailed highs that are not over expressed with great texture.

I’m a perfectionist and I have finally perfected this topping tp-60 amp which is probably worth £800 with how it sounds after all my mods. The veil is at its limit of being removed with these niobiums but you see the detail and expression beyond and it’s the perfect balance.

 

[flowcharts]

It's good that you found a combination that suits your listening tastes. I didn't realize these mods were happening in a Topping TP-60. In general, I wouldn't recommend spending Audio Note prices on a $200 amp. I actually have that same amp as a backup/crossover burn-in option. It does have a nice, almost tubey midrange, but it's still realistically performs in its price-bracket. That upper-midrange glare you're talking about may not be attributed to the resistors as much as it may be showing the deficiencies of the components themselves. If you're looking at class T, Class D, etc for energy efficiency, a lot of the newer Class D amps don't have the same upper mid range and high frequency problems as older designs.

 

[E.simpson]

It's good that you found a combination that suits your listening tastes. I didn't realize these mods were happening in a Topping TP-60. In general, I wouldn't recommend spending Audio Note prices on a $200 amp. I actually have that same amp as a backup/crossover burn-in option. It does have a nice, almost tubey midrange, but it's still realistically performs in its price-bracket. That upper-midrange glare you're talking about may not be attributed to the resistors as much as it may be showing the deficiencies of the components themselves. If you're looking at class T, Class D, etc for energy efficiency, a lot of the newer Class D amps don't have the same upper mid range and high frequency problems as older designs.

It's good that you found a combination that suits your listening tastes. I didn't realize these mods were happening in a Topping TP-60. In general, I wouldn't recommend spending Audio Note prices on a $200 amp. I actually have that same amp as a backup/crossover burn-in option. It does have a nice, almost tubey midrange, but it's still realistically performs in its price-bracket. That upper-midrange glare you're talking about may not be attributed to the resistors as much as it may be showing the deficiencies of the components themselves. If you're looking at class T, Class D, etc for energy efficiency, a lot of the newer Class D amps don't have the same upper mid range and high frequency problems as older designs.

I seeeeeeee!!!! That makes sense. You are right, but for some reason I do really like the amp and I liked the sound and found a thread where guys were upgrading it and thought let me one up them and do my own research regarding capacitors and cables and you will be surprised at how much better it sounds, yes I took the tan, ripple current, esr and impedance into consideration.

It did cost me quite a bit, I probably wont make profit on it because of the power output it produces but I am thinking of upgrading the transformers to a high voltage, around 32v instead to get a bit more from it.

before this amp I never soldered in my life and knew hardly anything about capacitors and resistors so it took a long time plus with mistakes. Yes I could purchase a new amp but every amp has its own sound and I like learning so it’s a great hobby for me for now. I will take a pic when I get home and show you what I mean. It’s not the older version it’s the 2nd newest version. I’ve made quite a few changes

 

[justubes]

Is your preference the standard niobium.

I cant tell, as all seems to be good in different ways.

I gather the niobium was used at the input it could be too much or less suitable for the outputs you would think?

 

[E.simpson]

Is your preference the standard niobium.

I cant tell, as all seems to be good in different ways.

I gather the niobium was used at the input it could be too much or less suitable for the outputs you would think?

Yes my preference is standard non magnetic niobium for input after coupling caps. I havnt tried any output positions as my amplifier doesn’t need any replacements as it’s a class d solid state and has not much on the pcb to change.

I’m using silver in my amp for rca cables and some high end fuses I have also use silver so me having the silver niobium as my input resistor changes the sound too much and I wouldn’t know how it sounds with all copper cables since I didn’t give it a try, but I know too much silver changes how the sound is portrayed and which instruments you hear more and the dynamics of them along with clarity and separation.

So yes they all do different jobs and regarding what flowcharts said about older class d amps and the frequency inefficiencies and issues with older models, if it wasn’t for that affecting the silver tantalum’s outcome with the slight upper mid boost I would choose those for music of all genres and movies as it carried the hifi sound more than the silver niobium and was better with presenting instruments that linger in the air in the high frequency range, silver niobium is orgasmic with its natural tones, incredible accuracy, amazing voices that are lifelike, full on full range sound with no compression to dynamics with a very subtle roll off from super high frequencies. It is a lot more analog than the silver tantalum’s and the normal niobiums and is incredible for instruments and voices but the soulful hifi sound isn’t there because things just sound so real.

so yes they all have their own sound and place but generally what I’ve said about them I would consider them to be 90% accurate as I’ve also read the same results for the niobiums and the silver tants that I got (aside from the upper mid bump due to older class d amps).

 

[E.simpson]

Here are the pics of my amplifier, bear in mind a leg snapped in the big output resistor path so I had to solder it from the top side. The two niobium resistors sit like that because it was easier to run tests and not damage the pcb lugs.

 

[justubes]

A note that now niobium capacitors are also available.

Have these been tested by others to any good effect?

Wonder if you get a similar effect as the resistors changing oit wome niobium capacitors.

By your discription the niobium resistor changes seem be have a very large positive effect on the sonic charactor to your topping's. Were these even larger/dramatic over your other mods like the big vcaps to an extent that selection between the niobium/tantatlum/with or without silver leads become increasingly difficult in using or even finding the right position to install them.

 

[E.simpson]

Yes niobium and silver tant has been tested by others and they even state burn in hours, results almost identical to mine.

I would say if I went from stock foil caps straight to vcaps the difference between that change compared to niobiums would be that the niobiums add slightly more in terms of improvements, maybe 200% more. I started with Auricap xo and the auri caps also more than doubled the sound quality From stock.

so the big kg power caps in the back had around 150% improvement in the quality, vcaps added another 200% on top of the auricaps, and the niobium with the biggest improvement of them all, but, because it’s at input I think me changing the input foil caps is what can allow me to hear more in changes down stream.

now I can say that the silver niobiums even after my mods of caps, added easily 500% - 600% on top of the vcaps. Single handedly destroyed every other upgrade in terms of improvement no comparison at all and the silver tants I would say 330-400% but again I can’t find a spot for it and not willing to go all out and ruin the amp. bear in mind I only burned silver tantalum’s for 30h and 1h for silver niobium but I knew it wouldn’t have been the outcome I wanted even with full burn in.

I can’t say because of my selection already that it makes it difficult to find a place for them, I just can tell it’s not for my audio tastes and stresses the amp too much or doesn’t sound 100% right. All other upgrades matched the toppings signature with big improvements to weaknesses and I wanted to keep that style which is what ultimately limited my resistor choice.