Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

[Mike Lavigne]

I have never quite understood why so many of us fear adding flavour. If it sounds great, I have no issue. Otherwise we would all be eating that impossible meat crap...

this all depends on the context of how you use the word 'flavor'.

i demand that anything i consume on any level is 'flavor-full'. which is the opposite of bland. i would not choose it as a product if i did not like it for what i think it ought to be.

OTOH i want to consume the 'real deal' from any product and not allow "added flavor" to rob me of the full direct experience. of course; it's a subjective question where truth stops and added flavor begins. which many times is the source of our debates.

 

[microstrip]

(...) but the digital recording process is different than analog and not as robust and complete. nothing is going to change that. so my 4 turntables start out with media that has more to offer by degrees, so can go further.

Now you puzzled me. In what sense the digital recording process is not as robust and complete as the digital?

yet; the digital recording process is also more technically accurate, so it does have a cleaner presentation. i prefer complete to cleaner, but i do appreciate the digital perspective.

Again, accurate but not complete?

i'm happy where i'm at. have i heard all possible digital choices? can anyone? we are not dealing in absolutes here. just my opinions. but i have a high level of confidence i have made good choices FOR ME.

No doubts on that!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Except I don't think Mike's Extreme had the latest updates when he made his comparison...

my Extreme had every update as of the date of the compare.

If I'm correct, the updated Extreme takes it to a whole new and better level so the comparison is worthless....

but in the meantime there has been more updates to the Extreme, so i can't say exactly how the delta might be now. as we go along there will be big and small upgrades and changes to both the Extreme and Wadax Ref server. this is a healthy process.

i guess we have a choice to view my previous compare as now worthless.....or not. probably i prefer to have people not know where things are at this point. it's only important for me to know how confident i feel about it.

i'll not pursue another direct compare, i've moved on from that decision point, but who can predict how things will go?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Now you puzzled me. In what sense the digital recording process is not as robust and complete as the digital?

purely from my subjective experiences.

Again, accurate but not complete?

i will add these words.......digital is more accurate and sufficiently complete, analog is more complete and sufficiently accurate. at the tip top of media source and hardware.

how things sound to me.....those are the words that come to mind as i listen to both.

No doubts on that!

amen.

 

[Cyrus]

Mike, seeing as you hail from the great state of Washington, the organic Apples are offended.

 

[Alrainbow]

In all fairness to mike and the resident industry experts posting here ill stop any post alerts.
Its not fair to mike to take his valuable time to answer my comments to his past honest comments.
Enjoy mike you are very well deserved of the level you have achieved and continue to move upward.
Regarding my industry expert comment in no way is meant to mike
While he clearly is one iooked up. i feel has well earned the tital. While others well get a trophy anyway .

 

[Stereophonic]

Except I don't think Mike's Extreme had the latest updates when he made his comparison...

If I'm correct, the updated Extreme takes it to a whole new and better level so the comparison is worthless....

Hahahaha….

 

[christoph]

I can't wait for a 500K Dacs to appear on the audiophile market.

Probably next year...

 

[howiebrou]

this all depends on the context of how you use the word 'flavor'.

i demand that anything i consume on any level is 'flavor-full'. which is the opposite of bland. i would not choose it as a product if i did not like it for what i think it ought to be.

OTOH i want to consume the 'real deal' from any product and not allow "added flavor" to rob me of the full direct experience. of course; it's a subjective question where truth stops and added flavor begins. which many times is the source of our debates.

I'm glad to know you like flavour-full dishes Mike. With your current choice of equipment, I think that is very evident. It surprises me when seasoned audiophiles get so excited by some equipment that whilst it is may be the ultimate in resolution and clarity lacks all manner of flavour and is headache inducing after 30 mins.

 

[bonzo75]

I'm glad to know you like flavour-full dishes Mike. With your current choice of equipment, I think that is very evident. It surprises me when seasoned audiophiles get so excited by some equipment that whilst it is may be the ultimate in resolution and clarity lacks all manner of flavour and is headache inducing after 30 mins.

I don't think that's what he said. And I am not sure you meant what you said. Give that a thought. It could be deep

 

[howiebrou]

I don't think that's what he said. And I am not sure you meant what you said. Give that a thought. It could be deep

Never re read what one writes. One would be editing endlessly otherwise. I'm sure Mike will set me straight if I have misinterpreted what he said but I think I know what you are eluding to.

 

[bonzo75]

Never re read what one writes. One would be editing endlessly otherwise. I'm sure Mike will set me straight if I have misinterpreted what he said but I think I know what you are eluding to.

It would be interesting to have conversations without referring to something specific. The realm of possibilities is endless. Maybe this is how the great philosophers started

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I keep wandering thou, Which studio uses DACS like Wadax and anything above 30K?

 

[howiebrou]

It would be interesting to have conversations without referring to something specific. The realm of possibilities is endless. Maybe this is how the great philosophers started

"Ked's Lore". Start writing!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm glad to know you like flavour-full dishes Mike. With your current choice of equipment, I think that is very evident. It surprises me when seasoned audiophiles get so excited by some equipment that whilst it is may be the ultimate in resolution and clarity lacks all manner of flavour and is headache inducing after 30 mins.

the sense of where the music is not well-served by coloration is personal. no absolutes. and is a system context thing too.

when does an overlay of color get in the way? a sameness. we like flavor and color in the music, but maybe not when it's a 'tint' to the true view.

i think it mostly requires an alternative that possesses natural/human 'flavor' and a 'rightness' to expose that sameness as coloration. there might also be artifacts involved that are not specifically coloration but highlight the differences in a particular system or type of music.

two recent decision points i made relative to this question were (1) dac choices back when i had the Lampi GG 1.5, then at the same time had the Nagra HD dac and the Aqua Formula dac, then a few months later the MSB Select II. then (2) when i brought in the Lamm ML3 and the VAC Statement 450's to compare to my dart 458's.

in each case i liked all the choices and would be happy with any of them. any of them might even be my first choice in another system or maybe smaller scale music expectations. but in both cases my personal view of the coloration as a comparative overlay were strong factors in my choices. i hope that gets more to the heart of my views on color and flavor. i like both when it serves the musical truth as i perceive it compared to the alternatives.

YMMV. others have had similar choices and made different decisions. no right or wrong to it.

i freely admit to using salt, pepper, parmesan cheese, and pepper flakes on certain dishes my wife makes. i realize it changes that essential taste of those dishes. that is how i like those dishes. my wife understands it and puts up with it. we are both happy that i am happy.

i prefer not to add seasonings to my music. the exception is possibly cartridges, but right now i don't own any 'flavored' cartridges, although i'm open to it.

 

[howiebrou]

the sense of where the music is not well-served by coloration is personal. no absolutes. and is a system context thing too.

when does an overlay of color get in the way? a sameness. i think it mostly requires an alternative that possesses natural/human 'flavor' and a 'rightness' to expose that sameness as coloration. there might also be artifacts involved that are not specifically coloration but highlight the differences in a particular system or type of music.

two recent decision points i made relative to this question were (1) dac choices back when i had the Lampi GG 1.5, then at the same time had the Nagra HD dac and the Aqua Formula dac, then a few months later the MSB Select II. then (2) when i brought in the Lamm ML3 and the VAC Statement 450's to compare to my dart 458's.

in each case i liked all the choices and would be happy with any of them. any of them might even be my first choice in another system or maybe smaller scale music expectations. but in both cases my personal view of the coloration as a comparative overlay were strong factors in my choices. i hope that gets more to the heart of my views on color and flavor. i like both when it serves the musical truth as i perceive it compared to the alternatives.

YMMV. others have had similar choices and made different decisions. no right or wrong to it.

I think I understand. I have always wondered why salt and pepper are such universally used flavours or seasonings in almost every dish you see chefs prepare (at least in the West). Why not tumeric or cardamom? Does that mean all these dishes taste of salt and pepper or do they bring out the essence of the meat itself? A quick check of Google came up with this:

Why is salt used in seasoning?
Seasoning. First and foremost, salt is used as a seasoning to enhance the taste of food. It makes bland foods such as carbohydrates (bread, pasta, etc) palatable and it helps to bring out the natural flavours in other foods.

If I read you correct, your preference of flavour would be similar?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think I understand. I have always wondered why salt and pepper are such universally used flavours or seasonings in almost every dish you see chefs prepare (at least in the West). Why not tumeric or cardamom? Does that mean all these dishes taste of salt and pepper or do they bring out the essence of the meat itself? A quick check of Google came up with this:

Why is salt used in seasoning?
Seasoning. First and foremost, salt is used as a seasoning to enhance the taste of food. It makes bland foods such as carbohydrates (bread, pasta, etc) palatable and it helps to bring out the natural flavours in other foods.

If I read you correct, your preference of flavour would be similar?

interesting; i just added another paragraph to my post above related to seasonings. and agree that 'salt' and even 'pepper' is that fine line of seasoning that can be essential sometimes. and many times my wife uses salt and pepper as part of the dish.

 

[bonzo75]

I think I understand. I have always wondered why salt and pepper are such universally used flavours or seasonings in almost every dish you see chefs prepare (at least in the West). Why not tumeric or cardamom? Does that mean all these dishes taste of salt and pepper or do they bring out the essence of the meat itself? A quick check of Google came up with this:

Why is salt used in seasoning?
Seasoning. First and foremost, salt is used as a seasoning to enhance the taste of food. It makes bland foods such as carbohydrates (bread, pasta, etc) palatable and it helps to bring out the natural flavours in other foods.

If I read you correct, your preference of flavour would be similar?

Good analogy, except that bland carbohydrates like bread and pasta do not have the same health benefits as Mike's organic orange, and the latter does not require salt and pepper to enhance flavor. Food for thought

 

[bonzo75]

Mike, seeing as you hail from the great state of Washington, the organic Apples are offended.

The Wadax is the apple of his eye, so all fine

 

[howiebrou]

Good analogy, except that bland carbohydrates like bread and pasta do not have the same health benefits as Mike's organic orange, and the latter does not require salt and pepper to enhance flavor. Food for thought

Sidebar: This is where we depart. IMO "organic" food is the biggest con of the century. Nothing wrong with organic, but it ain't healthier eating it.