What does a "dynamic sounding speaker" mean?

assessor43

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2018
312
194
128
As I go through my audio journey, sometimes I find myself asking this question. What is a dynamic sounding speaker as opposed to a not so dynamic sounding speaker? As I sit here listening to a pair of Quad ESL's, what is it that people do not find "dynamic" about them? They are fast, they are accurate and they sound fairly real to my ears. Are we say, comparing this sound to a say, sound in a movie theater where it is loud and it shakes the seats and stuff? Do I want my system to sound like a PA system or real music? When I go to rock concert, 99 percent of the time I am hearing the PA system through a sound board. What I want to hear is the bands individual amplifiers as if they were playing in the corner bar without a sound board. To me, that more of a truer to the source sound. I go to hear the orchestra play often enough to know that it does not sound like the movie theater, it sounds more like the quads. Or maybe does dynamics mean when I am listening to a jazz band through a horn system I can hear how loud the drummer plays the snare, how loud the trumpet player plays the trumpet or is that more of an amplifier thing?
 
Last edited:

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
972
390
1,625
71
Chicagoland
I think that a "dynamic" speaker should refer to one which (1) tracks well the moment-to-moment changes in volume of an individual instrument/voice, as well as groups of instruments and voices, (2) does not compress the momentary peak volume changes in music, and (3) subjectively sounds this way both at very quiet playback levels and at louder levels.

It is not for nothing that the Quad ESL tops The Absolute Sound's 2010 list of the most significant speakers of all time. The Quad 57 also tops a similar list published by TAS recently, not yet available online as far as I could find. Full-range electrostats are hard to beat in the midrange and highs in terms of apparent clarity, detail, and dynamic responsiveness. In the mids and highs, they are "quick" to respond to micro and macro changes in the dynamics of individual instruments and entire ensembles, within reasonable SPL ranges they don't compress the dynamic peaks, and due to inherently low levels of distortion they also sound nearly as dynamic at quite low listening levels as they do at louder levels, a feat which few other speakers can manage.

The problem area for "small" full-range electrostatic speakers like the Quads is the bass region. It is in the bass where such speakers run out of excursion capability at relatively low peak volumes, causing problems in the reproduction of bass-heavy music of any type when the average SPL gets loud. If you want to listen to heavy rock or orchestral power music at peak levels over 90 dB (and even that level is quite optimistic), Quads will either be damaged (the ESl 57) or kick into electronic limiting mode for self-protection in the later models. This dynamic range limitation may cause some listeners to categorize the Quads as un-dynamic even though they handle midrange and high frequency dynamics very well indeed. The limitation on bass dynamic range is really the only reason why I (who have owned MANY loudspeakers in my audiophile life) have never owned Quad speakers in any version, even though I have often been mightily impressed with their performance on appropriate-for-them material.

If you are the type of listener who never wants/needs to listen at peak levels higher than the mid-80s dBs (and there are many music lovers who feel this is plenty loud enough for home listening) then even in the bass range any version of the Quads are quite dynamic sounding since they are just as quick to respond to dynamic changes in the bass range as they are further up in frequency, and since their bass distortion--when not pushed beyond their limits--is as low as most any dynamic woofer and lower than most. Just recognize than most Quad speakers in most rooms really won't put out much bass energy below 40 Hz or so. But then most music doesn't really need the bottom 20 - 40 Hz octave to sound natural; even bass guitars and drums only go down into the 40s.

Quads, even the ESL57s, can often surprise you with the material which they WILL play well. I remember hearing a dealer demo of the LP of the M&K RealTime recording of Earl "Fatha" Hines, the one with duo piano and tuba. It sounded extraordinarily realistic with all the piano left hand bass and tuba bass you could ask for at realistic concert levels.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
I own 57s and do not regard them as a dynamic sounding speaker.

Beautiful and sublime in many ways but their Achilles heal is their lack of dynamics versus what I am accustomed to (horns). Their lack of bass extension doesn’t bother me.
 

Bodhi

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,051
361
155
According to Stereophile's Audio Glossary, "Dynamic" is defined as -

"Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast." (ie: the ability to go from 0-60 and back to stop quickly and in a controlled fashion without distortion).

Dynamic range is further defined as -

"1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion"

On my audio journey, the most dynamic sounding speakers i've ever heard are the Infinity IRS-V's which are awesome. Generally ribbon drivers seem to be the most dynamic sounding, especially when employed in a line stage concept. Though i'm not complaining about my Magico S5 Mk2's which are fast, well controlled and coherent sounding.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
972
390
1,625
71
Chicagoland
Horns may well exaggerate dynamics since they have a lot of midrange and high frequency peaks. Take a look at the Stereophile measurements of the newest Klipschorn here.
 

assessor43

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2018
312
194
128
so if I am in a smaller room, lets say 14 by 15 feet. the listening area is more like 12.5 by 14.5 feet, why would I want a horn in such a small room? I always thought horn drivers need more room to sound their best.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
972
390
1,625
71
Chicagoland
Many speakers require you to sit back aways from them for the output of the various drivers to gel so that you don't hear the drivers as separate sound sources. Horns can be especially demanding of this sort of distance, particularly spherical horns like the Avant Gardes where the drivers are by necessity physically further apart.

Some listeners, like me, are more sensitive to this problem than others, apparently. I thought the Duos at AXPONA this year sounded not so good; one reason was the separate sound sources from each driver. Many published reviews of AXPONA found this room to be one of their favorites, however.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Horns may well exaggerate dynamics since they have a lot of midrange and high frequency peaks. Take a look at the Stereophile measurements of the newest Klipschorn here.

You can’t generalise “horns” in this way - they are just too heterogeneous a breed. Horns are such a diverse classification of topology ranging from backloaded single driver to hybrid horn/reflex to full 6-way multi-amp.

Anyway - don’t want to open up horn debates cos I think most are bored of it. The Quads simply aren’t dynamic speakers imho ymmv. Delightful though in other ways.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,640
13,668
2,710
London
Horns may well exaggerate dynamics since they have a lot of midrange and high frequency peaks. Take a look at the Stereophile measurements of the newest Klipschorn here.

How do you call yourself an industry expert making such comments, including quads are dynamic (i love stats btw), and in another thread, saying OPPO is a great transport? Even my Mac air with no optimization and HQ player was better when Bill and I compare it at his.

I am all for value gear, and quads will be great but dynamic they are not. And I wouldn't buy OPPO for the price either
 
Last edited:

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,952
312
1,670
Monument, CO
Years ago when a rocker friend said my Maggies were not dynamic I hit the EQ to boost the mid-bass (maybe 80~160 Hz) and upper treble (maybe 2~8 kHz) and then he thought they were "more dynamic".

Right or wrong, I think he and many others associate the upper-midrange peak with "dynamic" sound.

IME - Don
 
  • Like
Reactions: jadis

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,640
13,668
2,710
London
Years ago when a rocker friend said my Maggies were not dynamic I hit the EQ to boost the mid-bass (maybe 80~160 Hz) and upper treble (maybe 2~8 kHz) and then he thought they were "more dynamic".

Right or wrong, I think he and many others associate the upper-midrange peak with "dynamic" sound.

IME - Don

Was your friend an industry expert? Also most ribbons are more dynamic than quads, and apogees are very
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,952
312
1,670
Monument, CO
Was your friend an industry expert? Also most ribbons are more dynamic than quads, and apogees are very

No, he was just a guy, and that was years ago. Just sharing a story, hopefully not starting a fight. If you want industry experts, then Paul Klipsch told me his speakers were more dynamic than my Maggies or conventional speakers due to their drivers and horns. Again, ages ago.

Maggies are planar-dynamics, though some (3.x series and up) do include a true ribbon tweeter. In my experience, and perhaps that of no other, horns (and specifically compression drivers mated to horns) have traditionally been heralded (ha!) as the king of "dynamic" but then the same folk who say that say ESLs are "fastest". I was always a bit confused by the terminology vs. the reality. Apogees I liked a lot but would not say they were significantly more dynamic than ESLs or planar magnetics.

How do you define "dynamic"? Seriously, it seems to be one of those terms that "everyone just knows" but few can define, so it would help to know what you and others mean by the term. Again IME, audiophiles seem to relate it to "punchy" sound more so than the dynamic range of a speaker, as the reference by @Bodhi stated, and boosting the upper treble often seemed to convey that impression. Of course it affected other sounds so was not a good solution for me.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,640
13,668
2,710
London
I define dynamic and dynamic range differently, much like what Bodhi put up in the stereophile definition earlier
 

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,987
1,141
478
Many speakers require you to sit back aways from them for the output of the various drivers to gel so that you don't hear the drivers as separate sound sources. Horns can be especially demanding of this sort of distance, particularly spherical horns like the Avant Gardes where the drivers are by necessity physically further apart.

Some listeners, like me, are more sensitive to this problem than others, apparently. I thought the Duos at AXPONA this year sounded not so good; one reason was the separate sound sources from each driver. Many published reviews of AXPONA found this room to be one of their favorites, however.

If you thought Duos were bad in this regard try the Cessaro Liszt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BruceD and bonzo75

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,640
13,668
2,710
London
If you thought Duos were bad in this regard try the Cessaro Liszt.

I agree but Marc likes both. I think as you guys approach 60 you listen only to the woofer and not to the top driver
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zero000

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,853
6,930
1,400
the Upper Midwest
How do you call yourself an industry expert making such comments, including quads are dynamic (i love stats btw), and in another thread, saying OPPO is a great transport?

Maybe you're too used to exaggerated dynamics? haha

Someone makes a reasonable post that you don't like and you attack him not his statements. Ad hominem argument is so tacky.

I think as you guys approach 60 you listen only to the woofer and not to the top drive

You make good contributions, but this is not one of them. And no it's not humor - too frequent an excuse. We know you can do better. Okay?
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,269
950
Bangkok
The administrator labeled me VIP Donor because I let go my kidney for a pair of Lamm.
 

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,987
1,141
478
Was your friend an industry expert? Also most ribbons are more dynamic than quads, and apogees are very

I take Tango's point but I have to agree. There's other points he makes that make.me think 'not an expert'.

Claiming to be an expert is always pretentious. Self proclamation of such is odd IMHO but the declaration of such by other people is always a complement.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,952
312
1,670
Monument, CO
I take Tango's point but I have to agree. There's other points he makes that make.me think 'not an expert'.

Claiming to be an expert is always pretentious. Self proclamation of such is odd IMHO but the declaration of such by other people is always a complement.

Amir and Steve gave me the label based on the technical articles I wrote here. It was not self-proclaimed. And I am pretty sure I have never self-labeled myself an expert in anything.

The reference to an expert in my post was to Paul Klipsch, not myself.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing