What situation are you most worried about?

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#1
Instead of dry lectures about tactics and equipment, let's reverse engineer the process and begin with our "nightmare" criminal scenarios. (Please keep them realistic....) Once we identify the potential hazards posed by our lifestyle, we can intelligently devise simple processes to deal with them.

Who'll go first?

Lee
 
Apr 3, 2010
15,814
8
0
Seattle, WA
#2
Let me first stay the dry lectures have been great! :)

Here are some scenarios:

1. Car breaks down in a remote area/road. No cell reception. You walk up to a nearby farm house. How do you do that to not be threatening to the owner?

2. Same as above but before you get to the house, barking dogs race toward you. What do you do?

3. Somewhat related to above, are there stuff to look for that says a stranger may be more of a threat than not?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,359
361
283
#3
You are alone at night or with your wife on the street and approached by 3 thugs with weapons. (Mr. Miyagi: "Best Defense...not be there.")
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
891
1
0
#4
I'm home asleep, and the front door is broken down.


I have had several encounters which required action on my part, but I see this as being the most difficult one to overcome. I hope I am never presented with it, although I do have a plan.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
1,231
0
0
#5
We land at Newark, it's 2am. By the time we get on the NJ Turnpike it's 2:45am. I have to take a nature stop, we pull into the first service center south. Terry stays in the car, keys in car motor running. I come back in five minutes and two people are standing next to the car talking through the closed window to Terry asking for money and that one of them is "sick". I approach and quickly survey the situation and immediately get in the car as one of them walks up to me as I pull the door closed. His hand was on the handle giving a little resistance when he says... "what's wrong with you can't you see we are in trouble" I pull the door closed real firm put the car in reverse and gun it out of there...

Mistakes we made:
1) never go to a rest stop after 2:00 am
2) never leave your loved one in the car
3) never leave your car running with someone in it when you are away

We were both shaking for ten minutes after. Thinking about a gun or a knife.

I am trained in self defense and I am very good and quick with my hands, but this was unexpected and I felt foolish.
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
891
1
0
#6
Thinking about a gun or a knife.
A knife wouldn't have been much use, and New Jersey won't let you carry a gun with a Pennsylvania license. Only "The Boys" can do that, so you did the best you could do without breaking NJ law. Of course, you could be an iconoclast, like my wife. She has her own rules.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
1,231
0
0
#7
A knife wouldn't have been much use, and New Jersey won't let you carry a gun with a Pennsylvania license. Only "The Boys" can do that, so you did the best you could do without breaking NJ law. Of course, you could be an iconoclast, like my wife. She has her own rules.
I was worried that they had a gun or knife.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
9,483
6
0
#8
Let me first stay the dry lectures have been great! :)

Here are some scenarios:

1. Car breaks down in a remote area/road. No cell reception. You walk up to a nearby farm house. How do you do that to not be threatening to the owner?
I think it's all in your looks and demeanor. Based on your picture, you don't look like a threatening person. I had a rental car break down on the way to New London, CT with two pipe fitters riding with me. We actually broke down on an interstate in MA. Since I was the highest ranking person and the driver of the car, it was my duty to go to someone's house and knock on their door and ask them to use their phone so I could call the rental car company. Thankfully it was daytime and the people's house who I knocked on the door could see me and didn't feel threatened and let me in and allowed me to use their phone. This was before the cell phone era.

2. Same as above but before you get to the house, barking dogs race toward you. What do you do?
Depends on what type of dogs they are. If they are hungry pitbulls, you are probably screwed. Most all dogs will bark when a stranger comes on the property. Unless they are vicious, they will come up to you and smell you and may just start wagging their tails. If they wag their tails, that is a good sign. If the hair on their back stands up and they start scratching at the dirt like a bull does before he charges, that's not a good sign. The best thing is not to act afraid because dogs can smell it and will react to it. I used to have a dog named Clyde that was sweet as he could be. However, he was also smart and had a sense of humor. If he smelled fear on someone, he would mess with them just for kicks. He never hurt anyone, but he did intimidate some people he knew were scared of him. My first boxer that I had was named Ginger. When we lived in Maine we used to take her with us sometimes on shopping trips to NH. We would drive on I-95 and Ginger loved to mess with the people in the toll booths. As we approached the toll booth, she would crouch down in the back seat so the attendant couldn't see her. As soon as I powered down the window to hand the attendant money, Ginger would leap out of her crouching position in the back seat and lunge at the window. I'll never forget one male attendant. Ginger scared the holy crap out of him and he yelled: "Jesus Christ! What do you feed that dog-meat?!!" I kind of felt guilty that Ginger had scared him, but it was still funny as hell.

3. Somewhat related to above, are there stuff to look for that says a stranger may be more of a threat than not?
This goes back to the first paragraph. Some of us have a sixth sense about people and some of us don't. I can 'smell' trouble is about to happen and then remove myself from the situation if possible. It's all about looks, demeanor, and the vibe they are giving off (that is the sixth sense thing I was referring to). Now we will let Lee give the professional answers to your questions.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#10
Let me first stay the dry lectures have been great! :)

Here are some scenarios:

1. Car breaks down in a remote area/road. No cell reception. You walk up to a nearby farm house. How do you do that to not be threatening to the owner?

2. Same as above but before you get to the house, barking dogs race toward you. What do you do?

3. Somewhat related to above, are there stuff to look for that says a stranger may be more of a threat than not?

Wow. Lots of replies! I'll state up front that Mark gave some great answers. Much of self-protection is intuitive, even though the physical techniques may not be. Agreed that walking up to a strange house for help is dicey. They might have been reading one of my threads just before you arrived.... The advice about appearing non-confrontational is good. You might also ask them to make a call for you, so that they do not have to let you into their home. Tell them they may call the police for help, that will help ease their minds as to your intentions. You will probably have to wait for AAA or the local mechanic anyway, so alerting police will not cost you any extra time, but it may help the whole process go smoother.

Next, threat of animal attack is very serious. There's no talking your way out of that one. The first layer of protection is awareness. If you intend on approaching an unknown home, you would be well-served to be extremely vigilant as you get near to the perceived "property line". The second layer of defense could be one of the non-lethal weapons discussed in another thread here. Dogs don't have the same motives for attacking, so they can be more easily dissuaded in most cases. As a last resort, remember the image of the dog trainers who wear the heavily padded arm for the dog to latch onto.... if the dog latches onto your arm, you can attack its throat. And no, I haven't had to personally do this. From what I've been able to gather from reports, this is probably the highest percentage move.

For determining the intentions of an individual, see:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ral-Cues-that-can-alert-us-to-Imminent-Attack

These clues reveal an imminent lunge at you. Movements of their hands around their waistline, with repetitive touching of certain spots, can indicate the presence of a concealed weapon. Non-professionals often use holsters, etc. that do not keep the weapon in a predictable place and orientation, so amateurs often continue to "check" on their weapon for reassurance.

Lee
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#11
You are alone at night or with your wife on the street and approached by 3 thugs with weapons. (Mr. Miyagi: "Best Defense...not be there.")
What in the H*** are you doing somewhere that can present this situation? How did you arrive at this point? I have been asked "What if?" questions for over 30 years, and they often paint nightmarish circumstances that could only be the result of total inattention to the STUPID PEOPLE, STUPID PLACES concept.

OK, enough spanking. Are you carrying a weapon? What level of training have you had with and without weapons? Have you discussed a street confrontation with your wife, so that the two of you have a plan of action you might attempt? Are there any barriers which you can get behind or any objects that can provide some cover? Do you have a cell phone with 911 on speed dial? Of course, sometimes things just go bad, and nothing I've presented is perfect. We choose the actions and plans that have the highest odds of success. Examine your exposure to any risks you might anticipate and plan accordingly.

Lee
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#12
We land at Newark, it's 2am. By the time we get on the NJ Turnpike it's 2:45am. I have to take a nature stop, we pull into the first service center south. Terry stays in the car, keys in car motor running. I come back in five minutes and two people are standing next to the car talking through the closed window to Terry asking for money and that one of them is "sick". I approach and quickly survey the situation and immediately get in the car as one of them walks up to me as I pull the door closed. His hand was on the handle giving a little resistance when he says... "what's wrong with you can't you see we are in trouble" I pull the door closed real firm put the car in reverse and gun it out of there...

Mistakes we made:
1) never go to a rest stop after 2:00 am
2) never leave your loved one in the car
3) never leave your car running with someone in it when you are away

We were both shaking for ten minutes after. Thinking about a gun or a knife.

I am trained in self defense and I am very good and quick with my hands, but this was unexpected and I felt foolish.
Peter,

It seems that you post-analyzed the situation pretty well. There are a few comments I could offer:

1. Totally agreed that you stepped into a high-risk exposure at the rest stop. Better to carry a bottle or jar with you for that need.

2. Might be OK to leave the car running if your wife is in the driver's seat, otherwise not.

3. Weapons are a personal choice and require some training, which your final comments lead me to believe is currently insufficient.


We have had hundreds of trained martial artists come through our program. A high percentage of them were not able to fight well when we elicited an adrenal startle response. In your scenario, the entire event was something for which you were NOT trained. No offense intended, but adaptation and skill results when one practices the actual event in which you'll be involved. So, the typical "match" fighting setting of martial arts training does not fully prepare one for the more chaotic environment of the street. Certainly, a toughening born of disciplined training in sport fighting, etc. is a big plus, but there are more focused skills that will amplify our abilities for situations like this. Your comment is representative of training that did not prepare you for handling a less-defined confrontation, and not a condemnation of the positive aspects of your training.

Lee
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#13
I'm home asleep, and the front door is broken down.


I have had several encounters which required action on my part, but I see this as being the most difficult one to overcome. I hope I am never presented with it, although I do have a plan.
Win,

I am planning to put up a more detailed discussion of home invasion counter-tactics. Factors involved include perimeter security, home fortification, alarm use (both traditional and improvised), dogs, firearms, safe rooms, escape plans, and emergency services contact plans.

Lee
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#14
A knife wouldn't have been much use, and New Jersey won't let you carry a gun with a Pennsylvania license. Only "The Boys" can do that, so you did the best you could do without breaking NJ law. Of course, you could be an iconoclast, like my wife. She has her own rules.
It is not my place to suggest that anyone break the law. Of course, everyone is free to make their own choices. Just be aware that breaking the law carries a penalty. In many courts (I'm no lawyer), "it was the act of a reasonable man" is an affirmative defense.

Lee
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#15
Wife accosted by larger, stronger man bent on assault.
I hear you, Don. I would first recite the STUPID PEOPLE, STUPID PLACES mantra, then go on to discuss this.

The majority of "away from home" criminal assaults occur in parking lots. Form a plan for your wife that covers her entry and leaving the store. Often task fixation is a major factor in successful attack, with the victim putting away groceries and other purchases before getting in and locking the car. We've even suggested that mothers with small children get into the car and lock it before securing the child in their car seat. All of these activities typically cause inattention to one's surroundings and a criminal can encroach without detection. Your wife should not balance her checkbook, examine her receipts, fix her makeup, etc. until she is locked safely in the car. I cannot tell you how many times I see single women sitting in a car with the door open while they are preoccupied with one of these tasks.

We have a short behavioral module on this subject that covers taking purchases to one's car and safely leaving the area. Included are a scanning procedure as you near your car, best escape tactics if someone approaches you before you are locked in, and overall considerations for spotting potential attackers cruising the parking lot. We also have a very complete program of rape prevention, including weaponry that females are likely to carry and utilize successfully.

Lee
 
Last edited:

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#16
I was worried that they had a gun or knife.
As well you should be. Fortunately, most criminal uses of weapons are for coercion, not assassination. We will take up the discussion of SECONDARY CRIME SCENES in another thread, but this topic is very relevant to the scenarion you've described.

Lee
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
891
1
0
#17
Win,

I am planning to put up a more detailed discussion of home invasion counter-tactics. Factors involved include perimeter security, home fortification, alarm use (both traditional and improvised), dogs, firearms, safe rooms, escape plans, and emergency services contact plans.

Lee
My plan involves dogs, darkness, and serious firepower. I hope it never happens.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,359
361
283
#18
What in the H*** are you doing somewhere that can present this situation? How did you arrive at this point? I have been asked "What if?" questions for over 30 years, and they often paint nightmarish circumstances that could only be the result of total inattention to the STUPID PEOPLE, STUPID PLACES concept.

OK, enough spanking. Are you carrying a weapon? What level of training have you had with and without weapons? Have you discussed a street confrontation with your wife, so that the two of you have a plan of action you might attempt? Are there any barriers which you can get behind or any objects that can provide some cover? Do you have a cell phone with 911 on speed dial? Of course, sometimes things just go bad, and nothing I've presented is perfect. We choose the actions and plans that have the highest odds of success. Examine your exposure to any risks you might anticipate and plan accordingly.

Lee
Thanks, Lee. 0 Training. Coming home late from the office, or even just coming home from dinner. Or taking the garbage out to the street (or the dog) after 5pm when its dark in the winter. Living in the city, you tend to walk but at night even if you take taxis, you still might be outdoors walking to catch a taxi, or waiting for one in what is typically a safe street in a 'safe neighborhood'...except for the 3 guys who happen to be walking by.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#20
Lloyd,

Your concerns are obviously valid. I ranted a bit because folks will spend thousands on alarm systems to protect their stuff, but make zero investment in protecting themselves. While the possibility of something that bad happening is quite low, the one person who IS victimized always wonders how they might have avoided it. The biggest purpose of all my posts in the self defense forum here is to motivate our friends to seek out some training and information that can enhance their safety!

Many of our members are affluent, and thus may present the appearance to the bad guy of "BIG PAYOFF". If you look like an attractive target and are observed by criminals, you definitely increase the odds of assault. Feel free to ask more specific questions here in the forum or via PM, whichever you prefer. I'll help however I can.

Lee
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high-end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing