What Speaker Cables Do You Use With Your Dartzeel NHB-108 ? ...

[joeinid]

Just curious is these amps prefer certain cables.

 

[asiufy]

Yes, they do, and not only speaker cable.
I'm now using Kubala Sosna Elation, and it sounds great. Very full and well rounded sound, no spotlight on any range of frequencies. It also keeps up with the amp's fast speed, without making everything too bright.
I've tried Nordost before, and that was a big no-no. Transparent is a good 2nd best option.
My previous cable was Argento Audio. While it was very good, it was a tad too bright and lean for the darTZeel. While it didn't obliterate the low frequencies, like Nordost does, it was only when I placed the Kubala in there that I realised the 108 was capable of a much more "full" sound.

 

[rockitman]

While it didn't obliterate the low frequencies, like Nordost does

what does that mean ? Clearly you are not talking Nordost Valhalla. If you experienced no bass with that cable, the issue lies elsewhere, not with the Nordost.

 

[rad]

I've had excellent results with the Evolution Acoustics Triple run speaker cables. Great dynamics, detail, & balanced.
I'm sure they would work very well with any speaker.
I have used & owned a number of high end cables, I love these! as well as there other cables in their catalog.

 

[asiufy]

Nordost Valhalla indeed. And the problem didn't lie elsewhere.
Put any Nordost cable, anywhere in the system, and you immediately notice less bass. Of course, there are gains to be had elsewhere, afterall, these are really fast cables, and slower systems benefit the most from it. But for darTZeel, avoid Nordost like the plague.
Please, don't take this as an all around negative comment on Nordost and its product. But for this specific brand (darTZeel), they don't work, at all.


alexandre

 

[rockitman]

sorry Alex, that simply is not true. Your assertion flies in the face of all the listening evidence/reviews out there over the years. If they didn't work for you for whatever reason (DartZeel), so be it. Bass is not an issue with Valhalla, nor is any other frequency range.

 

[asiufy]

Reviews of what? Nordost cable, or darTZeel+Nordost combo? Never seen a review of the combo...
Tested Nordost with the darTZeel integrated, as well as the pre+power combo, with an assortment of top shelf speakers, Sonus faber Amati, Dynaudio Temptation, Thiel 3.7, and the results were always the same. That is the plain truth, as we could, on the spot, substitute the Nordost for other similarly priced cables (mostly Transparent Audio). Of course, the very same cable might work in a different manner in a different setup. That's the way things go. Had a pair of Valhalla power cords plus speaker cable that I used with my McIntosh 275 amps, and they were great. But for this particular gear, with those particular speakers (sorry, never tested with Wilson Audio, which seems to be your speaker of choice), the sound thinned quite a bit.
Besides, at the recent NYC show, Sound by Singer made the mistake of partnering the darTZeel gear with Nordost. Ask people who were there what they thought of that room...
Again, please don't take it as criticism to Nordost, and I truly believe you must be getting excellent results in your setup, otherwise you wouldn't be here defending it But this is a darTZeel thread, and I felt I should help with the results of my testing.

alexandre

 

[DaveyF]

Alex, I totally agree with Christian, I have heard Nordost in many different systems and none of them were lacking in any way in the bass. I do think that Nordost isn't as 'Fat' as a cable like Cardas, which tends to 'bloat' the bass, IMO. Many people like this sound, but I do NOT think it is realistic. With regards to DarTZeel and Nordost, I would suspect that IF the effect is as you say, then this probably should be contributed to a mismatch in impedance between these components. Not an issue with Nordost per se.

 

[rockitman]

IF the effect is as you say, then this probably should be contributed to a mismatch in impedance between these components. Not an issue with Nordost per se.

I wonder if he is using a Dart pre and power amp and if so, using the Dart proprietary 50 ohm BNC cables to connect the two ? If not, there could be impedence issues that make the Valhalla not perfrom as it should for that particular system. I had to take exception with his orginal "Nordost obliterates the bass" comment.

 

[DaveyF]

I wonder if he is using a Dart pre and power amp and if so, using the Dart proprietary 50 ohm BNC cables to connect the two ? If not, there could be impedence issues that make the Valhalla not perfrom as it should for that particular system. .

That would be my thought also.

 

[jtinn]

Nordost Valhalla indeed. And the problem didn't lie elsewhere.
Put any Nordost cable, anywhere in the system, and you immediately notice less bass. Of course, there are gains to be had elsewhere, afterall, these are really fast cables, and slower systems benefit the most from it. But for darTZeel, avoid Nordost like the plague.
Please, don't take this as an all around negative comment on Nordost and its product. But for this specific brand (darTZeel), they don't work, at all.


alexandre

Alexandre, I could not agree with you more. While the Valhalla cables are very transparent, they are lean and etched. I have a great deal of experience with them in many systems. As a matter of fact, I am sure I probably still have a few sets laying around in a box somewhere.

Frankly, these are among the least favorite cables I have owned. When you hear them compared to a cable that has transparency along with body and bass, you realize how lacking they truly are.

Sorry Christian.

Of course my cables are my favorite, but the Kubala cables are really quite good.

 

[rockitman]

No need to be sorry Jonathan. "Lean and etched" ? Valhalla isn't in my system. In any event, one needs to get the cable that works best in their system.

 

[asiufy]

No need to be sorry Jonathan. "Lean and etched" ? Valhalla isn't in my system. In any event, one needs to get the cable that works best in their system.

Now you said everything. And that's the whole intention behind my posting. For a darTZeel system, Nordost isn't the way to go.

And while I'm indeed mostly using the pre+power combo, I've also tested with the integrated, which was the first piece of darTZeel gear I got. In fact, I almost returned it, as I hooked it up initially with Nordost cables, that I used in my previous system (McIntosh C2300+2 Mc275, worked great there!) and it sounded too lean.


alexandre

 

[rockitman]

Looks like we have come to a consensus... DartZeel and Nordost don't mix well.

 

[DaveyF]

Alexandre, I could not agree with you more. While the Valhalla cables are very transparent, they are lean and etched. I have a great deal of experience with them in many systems. As a matter of fact, I am sure I probably still have a few sets laying around in a box somewhere.

Frankly, these are among the least favorite cables I have owned. When you hear them compared to a cable that has transparency along with body and bass, you realize how lacking they truly are.

Jonathan, that's not my experience with Nordost cables at all ( particularly the Valhalla series). I presume you are referring to using them with Dart gear exclusively, which maybe isn't a good match.
OTOH, IF not, well, I'm open to take them off your hands

 

[Mike Lavigne]

coming back to the original thread topic here is a post i just made;

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1342188495&openflup&1&4#1

12 years ago i was using 6 sets of Nordost Valhalla in my system. 6 years ago i started using darTZeel electronics and today i own zero Valhalla. i don't exactly agree with jtinn about Valhalla, nor am i it's champion. for years i had Transparent Opus MM2 speaker cables and interconnects. those are now gone too. yet i have not gone thru lots of cables.

it's not a matter of Valhalla is bad, only that i've preferred other cables. i used Valhalla with darTZeel for awhile and enjoyed it until i found better.

my opinion is that these other cables would have sounded superior to my ears on any of my gear. i do agree that some cables are more full bodied or maybe sweeter than other cables, but some very open and neutral cables are more natural sounding than other open and neutral cables.

now when it comes to using the 'zeel-BNC' cables with darTZeel, or even better yet the Evolution Acoustics Zeel BNC's they are better than anything and by a good margin.

 

[asiufy]

How much are these Evolution Acoustics Zeel BNCs?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

How much are these Evolution Acoustics Zeel BNCs?

i'm trying to remember exactly what the list price is. i think it's $6500 for the first meter, then $1000 per meter thereafter. as good as Herve's zeel cables are, the Evolutions are silly good.

i own 2 sets of the Evolution Acoustics BNC's. one 1.25 meter between my Playback Designs MPS-5 and the dart pre, and a 7.5meter between the dart pre and the 108 stereo amp. referring back to the 458 review by Fremer, his reaction to the BNC's were for Herve's cables. and his system cables are not chopped liver. i thnk they are seriously expensive.

i also own an 8 meter set of Herve's zeel cables i now use between my King Cello tape repro unit (i had the 50 ohm interface added) and the dart pre, as well as a couple short sets i no longer use. Herve's cables are very very good and very inexpensive. don't listen to the Evolutions unless you are prepared to buy them.

 

[ack]

Alex, I totally agree with Christian, I have heard Nordost in many different systems and none of them were lacking in any way in the bass. I do think that Nordost isn't as 'Fat' as a cable like Cardas, which tends to 'bloat' the bass, IMO. Many people like this sound, but I do NOT think it is realistic. With regards to DarTZeel and Nordost, I would suspect that IF the effect is as you say, then this probably should be contributed to a mismatch in impedance between these components. Not an issue with Nordost per se.

I've read a number of posts that criticize the Nordost bass as lacking; as Davey said, and based on my own use of the Valhalla and Tyr, the bass is simply cleaner, deeper and more visceral as opposed to fat and bloated. It takes a little getting used to.

 

[Rocco I.]

I've read a number of posts that criticize the Nordost bass as lacking; as Davey said, and based on my own use of the Valhalla and Tyr, the bass is simply cleaner, deeper and more visceral as opposed to fat and bloated. It takes a little getting used to.

In my system (Burmester Reference Line) I demoed a lot of top model of the most important cable manufacture (e.g. Shunyata, Cardas, Mit, Transparent, Kubala Sosna Emotion and Elation, Xlo etc.) and the Nordost Top (Valhalla and Odin) were the absolute best.