What Speakers are you using with ART27? Fully "Alive" Sound?
- Thread starter caesar
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Sorry Caesar,
Just came across your post only now... wonder how I missed it.
First heard the award winning ART27A with AG Duo XD's, marvellous! The Class A power of 35w did some fine justice in taming the Duo's. The preamp was a GAT not the series 2 though. Then later on I heard it on the ML Ren15a's, that was equally outstanding! Both were highly transparent and realistic scale, plenty of drive factor, no strain whatsoever. Although I was quite inclined to close on the ART27A, I received word from my trusted long time CJ/ ML guru, that the ART27A struggled a bit on the CLX's top end. Also it didn't quite grip the triple stators & dual-Mylar config that ML uses to reproduce LF's. This involves a notorious impedence swing, rises to about 20ohms and drops to 0.7ohms in a blink of an eye. That is a difficult curve to grip, unless power and current are available in excess supply. So he didn't recommend the ART27A, and that's about when I got my CJ monoblocks upgraded to operate at a higher Class A bias. Now they grip the CLX's like holding a butterfly... (not that that's a good thing to hold a butterfly).
At the one and only showroom that the ART27A is currently in Aus up in Brisbane, it was driving a pair of Joseph Audio speakers, I think. I'm not too sure about the exact model but the few who have auditioned it said they didn't want to leave the room! Maybe so for the fact that this particular system also had a full installation of Nordost Odin cables, so must have been truly superb. Sadly I haven't experienced this particular system as yet. Hope to do so once we're more free to move around. Atm Queensland is in lockdown.
So anything with a benign load, higher efficiency and easy to drive frequency extension would be preferred on the ART27A. Perhaps with fussy load speaks it might work for softer to moderate levels, especially late night sessions. That was my one and only reason to try it.
And oh yes! To answer your particular question, definitely "fully alive" no doubt about that! Nothing syrupy hear mate, this particular Class A amplifier is in a class of its own. It's a true Jeff Fischell design at his finest!
Cheers mate, RJ
Just came across your post only now... wonder how I missed it.
First heard the award winning ART27A with AG Duo XD's, marvellous! The Class A power of 35w did some fine justice in taming the Duo's. The preamp was a GAT not the series 2 though. Then later on I heard it on the ML Ren15a's, that was equally outstanding! Both were highly transparent and realistic scale, plenty of drive factor, no strain whatsoever. Although I was quite inclined to close on the ART27A, I received word from my trusted long time CJ/ ML guru, that the ART27A struggled a bit on the CLX's top end. Also it didn't quite grip the triple stators & dual-Mylar config that ML uses to reproduce LF's. This involves a notorious impedence swing, rises to about 20ohms and drops to 0.7ohms in a blink of an eye. That is a difficult curve to grip, unless power and current are available in excess supply. So he didn't recommend the ART27A, and that's about when I got my CJ monoblocks upgraded to operate at a higher Class A bias. Now they grip the CLX's like holding a butterfly... (not that that's a good thing to hold a butterfly).
At the one and only showroom that the ART27A is currently in Aus up in Brisbane, it was driving a pair of Joseph Audio speakers, I think. I'm not too sure about the exact model but the few who have auditioned it said they didn't want to leave the room! Maybe so for the fact that this particular system also had a full installation of Nordost Odin cables, so must have been truly superb. Sadly I haven't experienced this particular system as yet. Hope to do so once we're more free to move around. Atm Queensland is in lockdown.
So anything with a benign load, higher efficiency and easy to drive frequency extension would be preferred on the ART27A. Perhaps with fussy load speaks it might work for softer to moderate levels, especially late night sessions. That was my one and only reason to try it.
And oh yes! To answer your particular question, definitely "fully alive" no doubt about that! Nothing syrupy hear mate, this particular Class A amplifier is in a class of its own. It's a true Jeff Fischell design at his finest!
Cheers mate, RJ
Very interesting. I remember owning the CJ MV60 Stereo amp...and it was a great amp. I actually thought about buying a 2nd one and mono0blocking which apparently you could do with those.
Could one do that with the ART27a? So 72watts per channel? (I understand it might actually be 144 watts because its 2x the power but the amp sees half the impedance load or something). That would be sensational.
Could one do that with the ART27a? So 72watts per channel? (I understand it might actually be 144 watts because its 2x the power but the amp sees half the impedance load or something). That would be sensational.
G'day Lloyd,
Not too sure if the ART27A can be configured in monoblock version. For that you'd have to ask Jeff himself.
That would certainly be sensational, and something I would look forward to very much! Having said that, after the full SE upgrades were done on my monoblocks, which included the Vishays that are only found in the ART series amplifiers, and not found on any other SE upgrades, they perform at extraordinary levels. In addition to that extra special mod I got done with their Class A bias operation, they do sound mighty awesome now, and together with the Vishays and Class A adjustments, I can clearly identify that these two factors significantly contribute to their superior performance.
I was waiting for monoblock version of these Art's for quite a while now but CJ only offers the big ART300's. Those are overload for my room and particular setup, and the CLX's honestly don't require that kind of power. One of my favourite combinations and reference systems of all time (apart from the ML Statements Evo-II's) is actually the CLX's driven with the ART300's, and it sounds like a million bucks! So whenever I do get that opportunity every Feb of the year, I appreciate every hour experiencing it! Unfortunately due to covid now we can't go anywhere, and there are a few places and systems I need to visit. So time will only tell...
I do know that CJ will be offering something new for 2022 but I'm not sure if they would include any other versions of monoblocks, most probably just setero amplifiers. Will wait and see.
Cheers L, and most of all, enjoy those fine tunes!
Best, RJ
Not too sure if the ART27A can be configured in monoblock version. For that you'd have to ask Jeff himself.
That would certainly be sensational, and something I would look forward to very much! Having said that, after the full SE upgrades were done on my monoblocks, which included the Vishays that are only found in the ART series amplifiers, and not found on any other SE upgrades, they perform at extraordinary levels. In addition to that extra special mod I got done with their Class A bias operation, they do sound mighty awesome now, and together with the Vishays and Class A adjustments, I can clearly identify that these two factors significantly contribute to their superior performance.
I was waiting for monoblock version of these Art's for quite a while now but CJ only offers the big ART300's. Those are overload for my room and particular setup, and the CLX's honestly don't require that kind of power. One of my favourite combinations and reference systems of all time (apart from the ML Statements Evo-II's) is actually the CLX's driven with the ART300's, and it sounds like a million bucks! So whenever I do get that opportunity every Feb of the year, I appreciate every hour experiencing it! Unfortunately due to covid now we can't go anywhere, and there are a few places and systems I need to visit. So time will only tell...
I do know that CJ will be offering something new for 2022 but I'm not sure if they would include any other versions of monoblocks, most probably just setero amplifiers. Will wait and see.
Cheers L, and most of all, enjoy those fine tunes!
Best, RJ
Thanks RJ! Would love to find out as a big long-term CJ owner and fan for the last 20 years up until only the last few months.
As for new products...have you heard the CJ HVA-1 headphone amp? There is ironically NOT that much competition at that price because it is very expensive! Long-term term have been considering the Sennheiser HD800S and the EAR Yoshino HP-4...and I thought, how about CJ? And then I realized the CJ is practically 2x the price!
Also, do you have any rumors about 2022? I do think the 27a might be a new direction for CJ which would be quite cool if they are able to provide that level of SET triode magic monoblocked.
As for new products...have you heard the CJ HVA-1 headphone amp? There is ironically NOT that much competition at that price because it is very expensive! Long-term term have been considering the Sennheiser HD800S and the EAR Yoshino HP-4...and I thought, how about CJ? And then I realized the CJ is practically 2x the price!
Also, do you have any rumors about 2022? I do think the 27a might be a new direction for CJ which would be quite cool if they are able to provide that level of SET triode magic monoblocked.
Unfortunately have not auditioned the headphone amp, mainly for two reasons:
1. Never got a chance
2. I'm not into headphones...
However, I've taken into account what a few trusted mates think about it, plus one of my former CJ dealers currently owns one, said it's beyond extraordinary! Hence, I guess the price.
This is a true JF design at its finest, so I guess he's the one that provides and delivers the best.
As for ART27A in monoblock version or any other SET amplifiers in that mono config, would definitely be sweet as! But trust me it would be awfully pricey!
As for 2022, nothing concrete as yet, only speculation... we're all looking forward to it though. Until then, enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
Thank you! Sounds great...would love to hear the HVA-1...wish it had more than one output...the HP-4 has 4. Ironically, I think the CJ has a lot more power than the HP-4 and could more easily drive 2 headphones at once. In any event...will give it some thought. Have found one that is demo and same price as HP4...hmmmm...perhaps for another day!
Finally sold! The one and only ART27A ever to reach our shores down unda was sold just recently to an owner who lives in NZ! Oh well, at least both these units got here first... speaking of both, yes the GATS2 as well. Not sure what the speakers are but I'm sure he's enjoying those fine tunes!
Trying to see if we could get any impressions on his listening experience with these two pieces of fine Art from CJ but nothing as yet.
Another award winning design from JF, the ART27A at its finest!
Cheers to any owners out there,
Best, RJ
Trying to see if we could get any impressions on his listening experience with these two pieces of fine Art from CJ but nothing as yet.
Another award winning design from JF, the ART27A at its finest!
Cheers to any owners out there,
Best, RJ
If you do find out what speakers/system the new owner is using, that would be interesting to know...thanks!
Yes L,
I'm very interested to know as well. In fact that was the whole purpose of my post, to see if he catches it...
Due to the very small CJO community we have down unda, I received note of this particular event, and I'm thrilled to learn it went well. Neither of these guys who were the sellers, can't remember what speakers the new owner is using, darn! Talk about good memory... maybe they should have used Teflons in their heads to preserve memory... ha!
Anyway, I'm very happy for him, and as you know, I'm very passionate about CJ gear. Would have liked to visit NZ one day (beautiful island) plus experience those fine tunes from that particular pre-power combo. However, I don't think that's going to happen for a while due to this crazy covid virus. It's going haywire!
Stay safe L mate. Do look after yourself.
Cheers, RJ
I'm very interested to know as well. In fact that was the whole purpose of my post, to see if he catches it...
Due to the very small CJO community we have down unda, I received note of this particular event, and I'm thrilled to learn it went well. Neither of these guys who were the sellers, can't remember what speakers the new owner is using, darn! Talk about good memory... maybe they should have used Teflons in their heads to preserve memory... ha!
Anyway, I'm very happy for him, and as you know, I'm very passionate about CJ gear. Would have liked to visit NZ one day (beautiful island) plus experience those fine tunes from that particular pre-power combo. However, I don't think that's going to happen for a while due to this crazy covid virus. It's going haywire!
Stay safe L mate. Do look after yourself.
Cheers, RJ
Just noticed this. I have Wilson Yvette’s. The ATR27a drives them well. Better would be Wilson Sasha DAW. A bit more efficient.
Nice one Coppy777
Great to hear that the ART27A drives Wilson's Yvette speakers with no issues. That certainly is a top design of high current and highly stable voltage, as is the case with every CJ designed gear. They're really well designed tube gear.
The new Class A rated- ART series amplifiers from CJ are in a different level altogether! Starting with their legendary Premier series, LP series, ART series 1 and now the ART series 2 in Class A config, is superb! I got another chance to audition the bigger ART108A's partnered with the ART88 preamp driving electrostats, that was simply outstanding! Really tops!
I also like the way JF (CJ's chief) has utilised the famous KT88's for the task. I would've initially thought he'd use either KT120's or KT150's, due to their higher voltages but he managed the Class A- all tube design with the KT88's. Really well done, hats off to Jeff.
BTW, what preamp are you currently using?
Any of CJ's gear in there as well or is it completely different?
Yes, the Wilson S-Daws would have been at a higher level in terms of absolute Fidelity. Anyway, I'm sure those Yvette's are reproducing some well recorded music at it's finest.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
Great to hear that the ART27A drives Wilson's Yvette speakers with no issues. That certainly is a top design of high current and highly stable voltage, as is the case with every CJ designed gear. They're really well designed tube gear.
The new Class A rated- ART series amplifiers from CJ are in a different level altogether! Starting with their legendary Premier series, LP series, ART series 1 and now the ART series 2 in Class A config, is superb! I got another chance to audition the bigger ART108A's partnered with the ART88 preamp driving electrostats, that was simply outstanding! Really tops!
I also like the way JF (CJ's chief) has utilised the famous KT88's for the task. I would've initially thought he'd use either KT120's or KT150's, due to their higher voltages but he managed the Class A- all tube design with the KT88's. Really well done, hats off to Jeff.
BTW, what preamp are you currently using?
Any of CJ's gear in there as well or is it completely different?
Yes, the Wilson S-Daws would have been at a higher level in terms of absolute Fidelity. Anyway, I'm sure those Yvette's are reproducing some well recorded music at it's finest.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
Hey Big Dog...
My preamp is the c-j original GAT. Phono pre is a TEA1bc. Bartok is the streaming source. Not too long ago, changed my Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables to Wireworld Platinum. Much better bass and mids.
The GAT is back at c-j at the moment on a little vacation. Running the ART27a directly from the dCS Bartok.
Undecided if that's preferred or not but the bass is definitely better. May upgrade to the ART88 but it's a big step cost wise. Any thoughts on that?
My preamp is the c-j original GAT. Phono pre is a TEA1bc. Bartok is the streaming source. Not too long ago, changed my Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables to Wireworld Platinum. Much better bass and mids.
The GAT is back at c-j at the moment on a little vacation. Running the ART27a directly from the dCS Bartok.
Undecided if that's preferred or not but the bass is definitely better. May upgrade to the ART88 but it's a big step cost wise. Any thoughts on that?
Ah, nice one matey!
Yes, that's an interesting find... between preamp or not. They say, the best preamp is no preamp!
I had an experience with this as well, during my ACT2 going in for an upgrade to the series 2. So I used the SACD player's variable Outputs directly into the power amps. That particular (McIntosh) digital player also had a level control on the front panel and remote function. Upto a certain degree it was quite good, such that things seemed clearer, far less noise, probably zero noise I would say, and quite pleasant to listen to.
However, the moment I got the ACT2 S2 back in, oh my! That just elevated things at all angles! It was a totally different dimension! At that time I was using the Quad ESL 2905's and then the ML Ethos hybrid stats. So that extra gain factor on the ACT2 S2 certainly helped, not only in playback levels but also in terms of better control and drive on the power amps.
Now, the thing is this doesn't mean that a preamp is a must. It all depends on your systems config and what sources you're using. In my case I'm using two sources, both TT rig and digital playback systems, so I need the preamp for switching. At the same time, I found the ACT2 series preamps, although fabulous, to be quite noisy. They always had a high hiss factor. I found less of that hiss on the ET7S2 and the GAT series preamps but now I'm using a special custom mod CT5. This utilises the exact same tubes as the ACT2, which I love, and best of all, zero noise! Pin Drop silence!
So, this is a highly personal preference, and something I did to create a custom sound. I could've easily gone upto the GATS2 but I chose not to because my personal preference leans towards the 6N30P tubes sound, not the 6922 variant that's used in the ET & GAT series preamps. The new ART88 also uses the 6922 variety but slightly different topology, where two more are used for impedence matching. So in the case of the ART88, there are no buffered output stages- as was the case with all of CJ's preamps. The ART88 is their only model that is an all tube design Linestage.
Speaking of Linestage, this is where I believe my particular system highly benefits from a true top notch Linestage, and that's quite evident from the various home/demo trials I've done over the years.
So, if you're using just one source and that's it, then perhaps you may never require a Linestage. This is something only you can determine, which one works best for your particular system. May need to do some home trials if possible, that's definitely the ultimate test!
That is how I carefully put together my system, and it took me an awful long one, about 15yrs or so and now I can say it's fully worth every penny, especially with the ML CLX's, there's no other speaker I'd rather own.
Cheers mate, hope that helps.
RJ
First, while my GAT 1 was at c-j last fall, I tried the Bartok direct to the ART27. It has an excellent digital volume control but lacks analog inputs so no LPs. At fist I thought it was fine but began to notice a lack of richness and quality in the sound, rather hard sounding. When the GAT came back, and I returned it to the connection, the SQ was much richer and more refined. No question a good preamp adds value; it may be an impedance matching variably effective over the range of audio frequencies.
Second, decided to replace my 15 year old GAT1 preamp with the new ART88. While a big decision, now that it's made, really glad I did. The ART88 is a significant positive jump in sound quality. Frequencies at top and bottom are much more extended. The additional clarity and depth are beautiful. The sound is faster so the transients are better. Percussion instruments like the piano, are noticeably more real sounding. Working to break it in now.
Congrats! I have long been an owner and admirer of CJ's work. PV14L/MV60, then ACT 2, GAT 1, GAT 2. Never one failing in all that time technically, and great sound across the board. Particularly as we entered GAT 2. Look forward to hearing how the ART 88 opens up as it breaks in.
I can imagine the ART88 + ART27a is a truly sublime combination.
I can imagine the ART88 + ART27a is a truly sublime combination.
c-j burns the preamps in for about 100 hours before shipping so this one sounded good right out of the box. The mids were not what you might ask at first but pretty immediately filled in. After a bit less than 100 hours the sound field suddenly seemed somewhat less dynamic but that too has now corrected and all is good. Have at least another 100 hours to let it run continuously on a steady Roon radio signal from the Bartok. And then there is the review in the British magazine that advocates for some quality 6922s in the first amplification positions before the buffer tubes. Have a pair of new ones in the ready when the time comes. Looks like a bit of a hassle to change tubes though. Lots of screws, lifting it out of the cabinet and unplugging everything from the back.
and then back again if not happy. So leave the top off until I decide I guess. Oh well, the problems of great expectations.
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