What stepup for the Kiseki Purpleheart?

[hogen]

Hi, I am taking a first small step into the world of SUT´s. What would you think to be a good SUT for the Kiseki PurpleHeart pickup? What about the Lyra Erodion or the Consolidated Audio? Any SUT that would also be good with for example a SPU? The plan would be to use it with the Kondo GE-1 and Kondo Overture with Avantgarde UNO XD´s. Thanks for any advice

 

[Solypsa]

First tackle the objective criteria, starting with how much gain do you need?

 

[hogen]

First tackle the objective criteria, starting with how much gain do you need?

I am not quite sure what gain is best for the Purpleheart. I have used it at 64 db with the Burmester 100, and that seemed fine though. The Kondo GE-1 has 34db.

 

[Solypsa]

Gain is more about the rest of the chain / speakers, but the more gain you acheive with a stepup the lower the numerical loading so this ends up affecting everything

 

[Solypsa]

For example if you use 1:10 SUT you will have get 54db total phono gain and 470 ohms load for the cart. Whether thats enough gain for the system depends on preamp gain /amp sensitivity...

 

[hogen]

For example if you use 1:10 SUT you will have get 54db total phono gain and 470 ohms load for the cart. Whether thats enough gain for the system depends on preamp gain /amp sensitivity...

I understand, the Consolidated Audio SUT comes in three variants; 1:10, 1:15 and 1:20. That should be 20, 23,5 and 26db. It seems the Erosion gives 26db. The Kondo Sfz (another possibility) gives 20 or 36db.

I am not sure of the gain/amp sensitivity of the Kondo Overture amp though.

 

[Maril555]

Kiseki Purple Heart has 40 Ohm internal impedance, so an optimal SUT primary should be close to that value.
That would roughly correspond to 1:10 step-up ratio
That’s what I’m using with Kiseki Purple Heart, Ypsilon MC-10 L SUT

 

[Maril555]

SUT primary impedance match with the cart internal impedance is the first step in selecting appropriate SUT.
The corresponding gain is the function of that value.

 

[Solypsa]

Perhaps start with 1:10 of modest cost and get a sense of gain and load?

 

[bazelio]

Kiseki Purple Heart has 40 Ohm internal impedance, so an optimal SUT primary should be close to that value.
That would roughly correspond to 1:10 step-up ratio
That’s what I’m using with Kiseki Purple Heart, Ypsilon MC-10 L SUT

Your math is off. Internal cart impedance doesn't dictate winding ratio. The SUT winding DCR should be matched to the cart internal impedance. The Ypsilon L is a low DCR SUT and not a good match for the Kiseki. You'd get better results with the H version. Curiously, the max load recommended for the Purpleheart is fairly light at 400 ohms. So the SUT ratio will want to be around 1:10 at most. The best starting point therefore is probably a 1:10 high DCR SUT. As close to 42 ohms as possible.

My recommendation is contact Dave Slagle at Intact Audio and have him wind a 1:10 40 ohm SUT for you. If there is a lack of gain with your phono, he can swap it for no charge later. But any increase in windings ratio is going to present a heavier load to the Kiseki than recommended, and will likely have other consequences.

 

[Maril555]

Your math is off. Internal cart impedance doesn't dictate winding ratio. The SUT winding DCR should be matched to the cart internal impedance. The Ypsilon L is a low DCR SUT and not a good match for the Kiseki. You'd get better results with the H version. Curiously, the max load recommended for the Purpleheart is fairly light at 400 ohms. So the SUT ratio will want to be around 1:10 at most. The best starting point therefore is probably a 1:10 high DCR SUT. As close to 42 ohms as possible.

My recommendation is contact Dave Slagle at Intact Audio and have him wind a 1:10 40 ohm SUT for you. If there is a lack of gain with your phono, he can swap it for no charge later. But any increase in windings ratio is going to present a heavier load to the Kiseki than recommended, and will likely have other consequences.

Ypsilon is 1:10 ratio
I bought this specific version after having it discussed with the Ypsilon designer.
It’s primary is around 40 Ohm

 

[bazelio]

The 1:10 version makes sense as you'll present a 470 ohm load, but I thought the Ypsilon L vs H designation referred to DC resistance of the primaries (as is convention with most SUTs). I'd seen this described for Ypsilon somewhere in the past, but can't find it now. L is normally 6-8 ohms or less, with H being in the 30s upward towards 40 ohms.

 

[Maril555]

The 1:10 version makes sense as you'll present a 470 ohm load, but I thought the Ypsilon L vs H designation referred to DC resistance of the primaries (as is convention with most SUTs). I'd seen this described for Ypsilon somewhere in the past, but can't find it now. L is normally 6-8 ohms or less, with H being in the 30s upward towards 40 ohms.

L designation doesn’t refer to the step up ratio
It’s an upscale model vs the non- L model
MC-10 refers to 1:10 step up ratio

 

[bazelio]

Ok I wasn't suggesting it referred to step up ratio, but to the DC resistance. If it doesn't (and I can't find the info I thought I'd read) then the Ypsilon SUTs must be only wound with a single DCR. Typically it's a low DCR, which might make this SUT a less than ideal match for this cart. Anyhow, sorry for the confusion as it looks like I have my own windings crossed .

 

[Maril555]

Ok I wasn't suggesting it referred to step up ratio, but to the DC resistance. If it doesn't (and I can't find the info I thought I'd read) then the Ypsilon SUTs must be only wound with a single DCR. Typically it's a low DCR, which might make this SUT a less than ideal match for this cart. Anyhow, sorry for the confusion as it looks like I have my own windings crossed .

Ypsilon doesn't specify the primary winding resistance of the MC-10, just states an approximate estimate of the loading "seen" by the cartridge, which is 500 Ohm (as you stated, Kiseki recommends 400 Ohm loading), which would roughly correspond to 40-50 Ohm of primary resistance.

 

[bazelio]

You're saying that Ypsilon told you that it's 40-50 ohms primary resistance? There is no rough correlation there, in general.

 

[Maril555]

In so many words, yes.
He actually said, that 47 KOhm phono input wil show 480 Ohm at the primary of the MC-10L, which is a good match for Kiseki, that recommends 400 Ohm.
And yes, the correlation with primary resistance is rough.
I really had a choice to order any of the Ypsilon SUTs and just went with what the designer recommended.

 

[hogen]

Thanks for good advice. I will probably soon be able to borrow a few different stepups, so I can test what sounds best in my system.

 

[pcosta]

The 1:10 version makes sense as you'll present a 470 ohm load, but I thought the Ypsilon L vs H designation referred to DC resistance of the primaries (as is convention with most SUTs). I'd seen this described for Ypsilon somewhere in the past, but can't find it now. L is normally 6-8 ohms or less, with H being in the 30s upward towards 40 ohms.

I think you may have read that on the Audio Note UK website describing their sut's

 

[daytona600]

Zesto make one to cover all ratios