What's best in tube-friendly loudspeakers?

[KeithR]

Then you haven’t heard a good SET yet with the power for your speakers. The Ref 75 is no bass champ...

Actually I have. GM70 SET to be exact at my dealer - any more snarky questions? I dislike SET as you well know, Brad - I hear oodles and oodles of distortion, but please tell my ears otherwise.

The 75SE is the perfect amp on my speaker in my system - and considering you've never heard my speaker...

 

[KeithR]

Poor, because they weren't to your liking driving some kind of horn speaker. BTW, i know of a few a'philes that think Aries Cerat is poor. I haven't personally heard Aries Cerat so cannot comment, but I do respect these guys opinion. I won't rely on it until I hear with my own ears though.
Same might apply to your points about Al M's system, until you have personally heard it, I think all else is purely conjecture. Also applies to all other systems that you have not heard, and for that matter with gear that includes Octave amps and gear that you have not heard...purely conjecture that it is 'poor'. IMO.

nope, DaveyF - SET always wins.

 

[KeithR]

Wow that's complex. What does solar inverter noise mean, and why move amps for that

read his post on Steve's solar panel thread from a few months ago.

fyi, most who hear the system don't realize the SET amps aren't on lol

 

[KeithR]

You continue to amaze me, Brad.

Actually, I agree with Brad here - Al, you should try a SET amp for fun on the Reference 3A. One of the great things about having efficient speakers si the ability to try many topologies.

Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But trying one is certainly worthwhile.

 

[Al M.]

Actually, I agree with Brad here - Al, you should try a SET amp for fun on the Reference 3A. One of the great things about having efficient speakers si the ability to try many topologies.

Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But trying one is certainly worthwhile.

Maybe, Keith. I have heard SETs, but while I liked the sound, I also couldn't identify what was supposed to be the special magic. I don't seem to be the only one when it comes to that. So my incentives for trying are not particularly high.

But as you say, SET always wins .

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe, Keith. I have heard SETs, but while I liked the sound, I also couldn't identify what was supposed to be the special magic. I don't seem to be the only one when it comes to that. So my incentives for trying are not particularly high.

But as you say, SET always wins .

SETs don't have special magic. SETs with certain speakers have special magic. With other speakers they have loads of distortion.

 

[DaveyF]

SETs don't have special magic. SETs with certain speakers have special magic. With other speakers they have loads of distortion.

Ked, I have heard many SET amps, most of the time, I agree with Keith... it’s oodles of distortion. Now if we are talking of a super high efficiency horn, then no problem with distortion,but then we are talking horns again, and really that’s where we again differ.
Personally, I also don’t see what benefit Al M would get with trying a low powered SET on his system, particularly since he already has a good KT150 based amp. For kicks and giggles, maybe... but the odds are strongly in the favor of his Octave, IMO.

Oops, I forgot SET always wins, except for when it doesn’t!

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, I have heard many SET amps, most of the time, I agree with Keith... it’s oodles of distortion. Now if we are talking of a super high efficiency horn, then no problem with distortion,but then we are talking horns again, and really that’s where we again differ.
Personally, I also don’t see what benefit Al M would get with trying a low powered SET on his system, particularly since he already has a good KT150 based amp. For kicks and giggles, maybe... but the odds are strongly in the favor of his Octave, IMO.

Oops, I forgot SET always wins, except for when it doesn’t!

Actually I have not recommended SETs, except for the speakers that SETs works with. On other speakers that SETs show distortion on I have recommended SS. With Al, I just know that he hasn't tried enough amps on his own speakers to make a call either way. Just because amp A worked over amp B does not make amp A genre the winner

 

[bonzo75]

For 26 years I have had low-watt parallel push-pull triode mono blocks (15 W/ch), which I loved.

A year ago I have switched to a 100 W/ch amp with KT150 tubes and I prefer it -- it sounds more natural, next to sounding faster and even more dynamic.

In other words, I don't see your point.

Btw, the 2a3 that are good are single ended upto 3w, and parallel ended like kondo souga, kageki are supposed to be 8w. The AN Empress, which I have heard and compared, is 6w. The NAF (slower than the above 2A3s but better than some other valve amps) is 8w. What kind of 2a3 was this that was 15w? You have not really compared a proper 2a3 amp on your speakers, and your speakers are probably not fit for them. How do you intend to get back 26 lost years?

 

[Al M.]

Btw, the 2a3 that are good are single ended upto 3w, and parallel ended like kondo souga, kageki are supposed to be 8w. The AN Empress, which I have heard and compared, is 6w. The NAF (slower than the above 2A3s but better than some other valve amps) is 8w. What kind of 2a3 was this that was 15w? You have not really compared a proper 2a3 amp on your speakers, and your speakers are probably not fit for them. How do you intend to get back 26 lost years?

You must have missed where I said "parallel push-pull". Four tubes per channel equals 3.75 W per tube. So no, 26 years were not lost . The sky is still blue and the grass still green.

 

[Zero000]

There are too many variables, including humans in the loop, to come up with any definitive rules.

You may think you can spot general trends that appear to be true to you. So you may formulate rules.inside yoir head. But as your experience improves, you will find exceptions and prove to yourself that the very rules you formulated are flawed.

To decide that various valve types sound best is flawed. It simply isn't true. There are poor to excellent sounding versions of most valve types.

The same applies to Ked's assertion about valve power output and sound quality.

This is hi-fi. It is the nature of it. It will constantly mess with your perceptions and mind. Over time you will see your view of What's Best change.

You may even go round in circles. Like Ked, who is back into MLs in a big way, or so it seems

Just needed to make this point after what I have read so far in this thread.

Over 40 odd years I have used valve power amps far more than solid state ones. Whatever the speaker I have had at the time. Just sayin'.

 

[Al M.]

SETs don't have special magic. SETs with certain speakers have special magic. With other speakers they have loads of distortion.

I heard neither magic nor distortion. Very good, clean and detailed sound, but nothing what would make me understand what the fuss is all about.

 

[Al M.]

Ked, I have heard many SET amps, most of the time, I agree with Keith... it’s oodles of distortion. Now if we are talking of a super high efficiency horn, then no problem with distortion,but then we are talking horns again, and really that’s where we again differ.
Personally, I also don’t see what benefit Al M would get with trying a low powered SET on his system, particularly since he already has a good KT150 based amp. For kicks and giggles, maybe... but the odds are strongly in the favor of his Octave, IMO.

Oops, I forgot SET always wins, except for when it doesn’t!

Yes, and golden ears like those of SET aficionados always win too, not like the shabby tin ears of myself and all my audiophile visitors who loved the Octave amp. We are just not enlightened and sophisticated enough, that's all. And of course, we also have all the wrong references, like boring ole unamplified live music, for example. So we have no trace of a clue about how it should sound. Lost in the wilderness, as they say

But seriously, I agree with your assessment. I don't see the benefit, given what I have experienced from SET so far.

 

[microstrip]

Yes but you are trying on speakers none of them sound good on. Those speakers you need dagostino momentums or whatever your preference is in that area. As such the speakers are too slow to tell if the amp is slow or not.

IMHO generically telling some one that the Siegfried II is slow on the XLF is absurd - your comment borders the ridiculous. Many people have XLF with powerful tubes, not so powerful tubes and some even with ML3's - I am not an isolated case, there are a few hundreds of pairs of XLFs around.

But yes, the XLF's sounded slow in my difficult room until I built the bass traps - it was easy do diagnose using measurements. Not anymore now. BTW, the Soundlab and the ESL 63 are my comparison speakers - that I do not consider slow at all.

 

[morricab]

Poor, because they weren't to your liking driving some kind of horn speaker. BTW, i know of a few a'philes that think Aries Cerat is poor. I haven't personally heard Aries Cerat so cannot comment, but I do respect these guys opinion. I won't rely on it until I hear with my own ears though.
Same might apply to your points about Al M's system, until you have personally heard it, I think all else is purely conjecture. Also applies to all other systems that you have not heard, and for that matter with gear that includes Octave amps and gear that you have not heard...purely conjecture that it is 'poor'. IMO.

No horn speaker. Only cone/dome I am talking about.
With regard to Aries Cerat...if you say so...Of course no context given just hit and run commentary.

 

[morricab]

Poor, because they weren't to your liking driving some kind of horn speaker. BTW, i know of a few a'philes that think Aries Cerat is poor. I haven't personally heard Aries Cerat so cannot comment, but I do respect these guys opinion. I won't rely on it until I hear with my own ears though.
Same might apply to your points about Al M's system, until you have personally heard it, I think all else is purely conjecture. Also applies to all other systems that you have not heard, and for that matter with gear that includes Octave amps and gear that you have not heard...purely conjecture that it is 'poor'. IMO.

Not conjecture, based on owning 3 different models of Ref3a speakers and hearing dozens of times Octave (higher model) amps on numerous speakers...

 

[morricab]

Bonzo if you make another trip out to So. Cal I'll introduce to my friend Jim. He has Tannoy Westminsters driven by and all tube EAR preamp and power amp. Most of the modern Tannoy set ups I've heard have been under powered. The Westminster really needs 30 watts plus to open up and deliver life sized dynamics.

Of course I'm smitten with my current JBL customer speakers but the standard PBN line is more tuned to solid state than tubes.

That would be an interesting session . Your speakers would also be interesting to hear

 

[morricab]

Ked, I have heard many SET amps, most of the time, I agree with Keith... it’s oodles of distortion. Now if we are talking of a super high efficiency horn, then no problem with distortion,but then we are talking horns again, and really that’s where we again differ.
Personally, I also don’t see what benefit Al M would get with trying a low powered SET on his system, particularly since he already has a good KT150 based amp. For kicks and giggles, maybe... but the odds are strongly in the favor of his Octave, IMO.

Oops, I forgot SET always wins, except for when it doesn’t!

With his speakers it should be a 20 watt + SET not a low powered one.

 

[morricab]

Actually I have. GM70 SET to be exact at my dealer - any more snarky questions? I dislike SET as you well know, Brad - I hear oodles and oodles of distortion, but please tell my ears otherwise.

The 75SE is the perfect amp on my speaker in my system - and considering you've never heard my speaker...

Just saying an amp is a GM70SET doesn’t mean anything. It could sound anything from great to meh.
What are your speakers? Then I can tell you if I have heard them or not.

 

[morricab]

I heard neither magic nor distortion. Very good, clean and detailed sound, but nothing what would make me understand what the fuss is all about.

In your speakers? Also, what SETs? They have a wide range of quality just like other amp types.