A while ago we predicted a precipitous drop. What are you folks hearing? Are manufacturers open? Who? Are they repairing equipment? Is anyone buying?
What's the state of the high end audio industry during the pandemic?
- Thread starter ack
- Start date
I think that anytime people become worried about losing their jobs or become nervous about finances, and an economic recession is in sight, people at all levels except the very wealthiest reduce or postpone or cancel planned spending on hobbies.
I don't know about that @Ron Resnick. I know that GR-Research has sold high amounts of speaker kits.
Myself, I just ordered parts for a new computer and did so a bit earlier than I would normally just because parts were flying out of stock and made my choices change several times.
It just doesn't seem like a particular slow down has hit. I'd say that the wealthiest that have to go through dealers for more expensive products are dealing with more issues than all the direct order/website order companies.
Myself, I just ordered parts for a new computer and did so a bit earlier than I would normally just because parts were flying out of stock and made my choices change several times.
It just doesn't seem like a particular slow down has hit. I'd say that the wealthiest that have to go through dealers for more expensive products are dealing with more issues than all the direct order/website order companies.
Anytime you are buying something that requires listening before you buy, the sale is going to get postponed until you can listen. Dealers may be willing to ship you their demo equipment for home trials these days, since they are not worried about not having it in their listening rooms for other customers.
Larry
Larry
My experience with four well known audio manufacturers in the last week is that they remain open conducting repairs/upgrades/sales, although they might be limiting staffing so turnaround time could be affected.
New purchases are likely near non-existent given that most cities are under lockdown and so dealers are closed. Plus by the end of this month it's very possible that 20% of formerly employed people will be unemployed. That's a pretty devastating combo for sales of any non-essential products.
New purchases are likely near non-existent given that most cities are under lockdown and so dealers are closed. Plus by the end of this month it's very possible that 20% of formerly employed people will be unemployed. That's a pretty devastating combo for sales of any non-essential products.
In my opinion and I have been a dealer principal and a distributor for almost 50 years is that whatever you did and knew before about the audio business will change dramatically over the next year. The future is unclear and it WILL bring change. This Industry is very behind the times from a marketing and sales perspective before the outbreak now they will have to try to evolve.
I believe that after this is finished there may be business as I believe it will take time for people to gather again in groups and people will spend money in their homes for comfort, security, entertainment, cooking etc. This may include High End Audio hopefully. For now this is not a good thing for any luxury product as people are scared and concerned about the future, a future that will bring change for sure.
BTW many audio factories are closed and employees are furloughed. I will not name names but trust me this is fact.
I believe that after this is finished there may be business as I believe it will take time for people to gather again in groups and people will spend money in their homes for comfort, security, entertainment, cooking etc. This may include High End Audio hopefully. For now this is not a good thing for any luxury product as people are scared and concerned about the future, a future that will bring change for sure.
BTW many audio factories are closed and employees are furloughed. I will not name names but trust me this is fact.
I'm still getting inquiries, sending demos and taking orders, but sales volume is certainly down.
It's actually better than I hoped, and I'm trying to do my part to support the businesses I normally patronize by making some purchases. I'm lucky enough to be able to do many other things like electrical work, woodwork and cabinets, floors, etc. so I think even if sales are down from ZenWave I should be able to do other things to make a living until business returns to normal.
I can say for sure, speaking for all small business owners, your business is most appreciated now more than ever and spending some with them may make all the difference between making it through this or not. I feel bad for those business owners that have emplyees that had to be let go, this is a really tough position to be in right now and I hope our leadership is proving enough support for unemployment payments.
It's actually better than I hoped, and I'm trying to do my part to support the businesses I normally patronize by making some purchases. I'm lucky enough to be able to do many other things like electrical work, woodwork and cabinets, floors, etc. so I think even if sales are down from ZenWave I should be able to do other things to make a living until business returns to normal.
I can say for sure, speaking for all small business owners, your business is most appreciated now more than ever and spending some with them may make all the difference between making it through this or not. I feel bad for those business owners that have emplyees that had to be let go, this is a really tough position to be in right now and I hope our leadership is proving enough support for unemployment payments.
I agree with this Ron. My view is less about the industry - manufactures, dealers, reviewers - and more about how the customer will respond.
The industry was facing challenges before this. More contraction, consolidation, and adaptation will likely follow after this pandemic. I think the customer - the audiophile, listener, hobbyist, recording collector - will become more value oriented and seek out those products that best demonstrate performance versus price. This, in turn, may lead to even more contraction and fewer choices. Audiophiles will seek out solutions which cost less and improve the sound more, perhaps increasing demand for top vintage gear. I also think they will find ways to improve their systems without continual gear swapping. They will ask more questions, they will experiment more, they will do things that lead to improvement and satisfaction. They may increasingly build their own gear or support refurbishers/modifyers who have low costs and offer high value.
There may be more discussions in audio forums about how to improve sound and the listening experience, and fewer discussions about the latest, greatest, newest components promising to take the system to the next level.
I don't know if this will be a good or bad thing for the hobby, but I think this current crisis will cause those involved in it, to reflect, reassess, and adapt to a new approach and market condition.
I still have a good order situation and I am satisfied.
I'm more worried about my loyal dealers in Germany.
When the crisis broke, they had to close their shops. But the costs are still running.
I have supported my good partner dealers financially - with a good 4-digit € sum.
That is partnership in action for me.
I think if they are better after the crisis, I will be rewarded with more lucrative orders.
take care... Rainer
I'm more worried about my loyal dealers in Germany.
When the crisis broke, they had to close their shops. But the costs are still running.
I have supported my good partner dealers financially - with a good 4-digit € sum.
That is partnership in action for me.
I think if they are better after the crisis, I will be rewarded with more lucrative orders.
take care... Rainer
Last edited:
Peter: "I also think they will find ways to improve their systems without continual gear swapping. " I don't think so. This is a hobby and an addiction. Those who have a hobby to swap gear, will continue to do so, as long as they stay in the hobby. This hobby has always been about moving along to most, irrespective of what their current set up is.
"They will ask more questions, they will experiment more, they will do things that lead to improvement and satisfaction." Again, their core nature will not change. Similarly to forum habits. You ask a lot of questions, while someone else lurks. If the person is asking questions today, he will continue to do so, else not. In fact, with visits becoming more difficult, search will become more superficial and cursory so those who like to investigate physically before buying will be less able to, and will have to do so more on reading online or video rather than physical store and audiophile visits. There might be a more gear demoed at home rather before purchase but the ability to do so is always limited.
Audiophiles will seek out solutions which cost less and improve the sound more, perhaps increasing demand for top vintage gear - I don't see the connection to vintage. Anything with good resale value might take more importance, except with the very rich, and that will include vintage or modern stuff.
"They will ask more questions, they will experiment more, they will do things that lead to improvement and satisfaction." Again, their core nature will not change. Similarly to forum habits. You ask a lot of questions, while someone else lurks. If the person is asking questions today, he will continue to do so, else not. In fact, with visits becoming more difficult, search will become more superficial and cursory so those who like to investigate physically before buying will be less able to, and will have to do so more on reading online or video rather than physical store and audiophile visits. There might be a more gear demoed at home rather before purchase but the ability to do so is always limited.
Audiophiles will seek out solutions which cost less and improve the sound more, perhaps increasing demand for top vintage gear - I don't see the connection to vintage. Anything with good resale value might take more importance, except with the very rich, and that will include vintage or modern stuff.
I think nothing will change,sure for some months all will suffer,but then all will become normal because this is like a drug for us and we love it.
In my life i sold my systems for 2 times,or because tired of hifi world,or for some financial problems,but then restart to spend more than before,
this also happened to my friends.
In my life i sold my systems for 2 times,or because tired of hifi world,or for some financial problems,but then restart to spend more than before,
this also happened to my friends.
Thank you Bonzo. Would you also comment on the rest of my post, namely the second half in which I write the following?
"There may be more discussions in audio forums about how to improve sound and the listening experience, and fewer discussions about the latest, greatest, newest components promising to take the system to the next level.
I don't know if this will be a good or bad thing for the hobby, but I think this current crisis will cause those involved in it, to reflect, reassess, and adapt to a new approach and market condition."
There are always discussions about improving the listening experience. Speaker positions, isolation, network and streaming tweaking, VTA, measurements, etc have always been active, as have newer components. Yes if people become more price conscious, newer components might suffer but that will be because they head for established brands in the used market.
like 2008 those hifi companies (retail and manufacturers) with the biggest fixed costs will be exposed and a few will not get through it. and newer companies that needed the audio show exposure to get established might get caught out before they reached an effective operating balance. i doubt many hifi related companies are due for any bail-out assistance to help get through this.
to me the question about the hifi industry will be what things look like a year from now. if the world economy contracts 10%-15%-20% that will be significant to how hifi things will look going forward. what's too bad is that there was so much positive going on, it's sad to see much of that likely blunted.
personally i was at my end game/pause point anyway.......so other than missing having visitors it's not much different than it would have been hifi wise. i'm now in my music acquisition mode and enjoyment mode. i have been mostly just digging deep into my music and finding some distraction.
to me the question about the hifi industry will be what things look like a year from now. if the world economy contracts 10%-15%-20% that will be significant to how hifi things will look going forward. what's too bad is that there was so much positive going on, it's sad to see much of that likely blunted.
personally i was at my end game/pause point anyway.......so other than missing having visitors it's not much different than it would have been hifi wise. i'm now in my music acquisition mode and enjoyment mode. i have been mostly just digging deep into my music and finding some distraction.
It depends on the numbers and business models of the companies (debt, capital, number of orders, etc), and also the geographical situation, is not the same to have a business in Spain or Hungary than in the US or Japan, for example.
If I were trying to found a high end audio company (big if) and have enough money for it (bigger if!), I would definetely look at having an sterilized factory, vapour soldering and PCB printing machines (the less staff, the better, only where a human is strictly necessary), and the few people employed, with masks, gloves etc (whatever is necessary or even overkill for IPE) at a distance at least 2m from each other. If another coronavirus comes, there is no need to close such a factory.
Also, direct sales, web store and as high forum pressence as possible, 30 days home trial with free return in that timeframe, just shipping costs paid by the customer.
The dealer+store business model has much more difficult times ahead with the pandemic IMO.
Keep in mind that if, 1 year ago the prediction of robots replacing humans for most tasks was around 20-30 years...robots don't get infected, so this may be accelerated at an alarming rate, so probably in 4 or 5 years buying suitable CNC machines for milling an amp/preamp chassis, high end PCB printers and vapour soldering machines will be much cheaper than today.
If I were trying to found a high end audio company (big if) and have enough money for it (bigger if!), I would definetely look at having an sterilized factory, vapour soldering and PCB printing machines (the less staff, the better, only where a human is strictly necessary), and the few people employed, with masks, gloves etc (whatever is necessary or even overkill for IPE) at a distance at least 2m from each other. If another coronavirus comes, there is no need to close such a factory.
Also, direct sales, web store and as high forum pressence as possible, 30 days home trial with free return in that timeframe, just shipping costs paid by the customer.
The dealer+store business model has much more difficult times ahead with the pandemic IMO.
Keep in mind that if, 1 year ago the prediction of robots replacing humans for most tasks was around 20-30 years...robots don't get infected, so this may be accelerated at an alarming rate, so probably in 4 or 5 years buying suitable CNC machines for milling an amp/preamp chassis, high end PCB printers and vapour soldering machines will be much cheaper than today.
As a reasonably mid level part of the demographic I feel for me this is only the very first moment after a very considerable change and so people are likely just getting their initial footing with the new welt order. So this is a moment of reassessment.
My aim at this point is probably to make no new significant changes but until certain things become more clear primarily just maximising what I already have.
I guess where everyone is at will modify this but my thinking has turned to simple things like valve rolling, small system optimisation such as looking at the current weak links in the system and mostly then just appreciating what I already have.
I am fortunate to still have work so the only area I’m bolstering at the moment is in health so I am buying a new bike to replace the lap swimming I usually do to keep my health in something approaching a good place which is more of a priority than big gear changes.
I will likely sell off some of my gear if possible purely to get myself down to something less exposed and more essential and trim.
With the first part of the lockdown I believe many are initially doing some spending to keep themselves from getting bored in their new stay at home circumstances.
But once the lasting reality sets in I think many will put a freeze on acquisitions and then things may then just tumble as they will.
Economically it may be similar to 2008 but it is NOT the same in every other way. All of you guys want to see and hear things before you buy them or have the importunity to try them in your home. This is not something that can happen with every product. Many products require set up and installation and are very expensive to ship and deliver. As a long term dealer and now distributor I know how important it is to visit a client with these type of products to insure that they are installed and set up correctly. I know I will catch shit for this statement but I know it to be true.
Its not a criticism just facts. I and my peers can't do what our clients can do and hopefully don't pretend too. I am not a Doctor, Lawyer , Auto dealer, Head of a major corporation, Banker, hedge fund mogul etc. I can't perform these jobs nor can I tell these people how to run their businesses . I do however know how to set up my products, position speakers in a room for best sound and how to suggest things that work together. I know that I have not listened to everything nor that I know it all but I am highly trained and experienced.
Hate me I can deal with it and I have said this before and will continue forever. I have heard hundreds of high end systems all over the US and the world and very few are set up and installed to their maximum ability Period! This is what should make High End special and different and all of you as consumers should want to get the maximum out of what your hard earned purchases.
The High End is going to need all of your help to continue as the ability to show these products has been destroyed for 2020. I am not sure about being able to bring products to people to hear or for them to travel to see and hear. These are very confusing and uncertain times and if you are lucky enough to be able to afford to buy I say BUY everyone will be grateful for you help.
My company is small and has a small overhead and we hope that this will pass and we can survive and thrive in 2021 . We have spent a lot of time and money pointing towards Axpona this week, Munich next month and LA in June. These are all dead. I don't think Axpona in August is a good idea and I believe they should cancel the show for this year. It truly makes no sense to me. We talk a lot of how do we get our new Divin Marquis Speakers out in the marketplace and what that will look like. There are no simple answers right now but I can say this for those who believe in Gobel and are willing to help we will go above and beyond to make you happy and satisfied in the long term. I have some ideas and in fact already know some great ways to do this but that I will hold for those who want to get a pair of our products.
Stay safe and SPEND if you can
Jim Smith told me something similar when he visited me. And his comments about the lack of properly set up turntables was pretty shocking. Part of his business is to help clients set up their systems properly and to optimize their potential. This does not surprise me at all with fewer and fewer dealers around teaching customers about set up, specifically speaker position and turntables. It seems that your business model includes such service, which is great to see.
Perhaps my views are highly influenced by what I have been doing with my own system lately, and the satisfaction I have from experimentation while waiting out this pandemic. I did not suspect the sound would improve so much without buying new gear. I think this speaks to your point about optimizing a system's potential. I'm just focused on this now where before I was more likely to upgrade gear.
I see more people focusing on this by themselves or with the help of experts like you, Jim Smith and others.
Peter thank you. I promise you that having Jim or Stirling or a few others visit your home ( of course when possible) will be the BEST upgrade ever. The reason is that you start from the correct staring point. What do I mean by that? I mean that you aren't trying to fix problems you hear based on the wrong criteria. If the speakers aren't set correctly in the space you have you are chasing your tail forever. Stay safe and it sounds like you are on the right path. There is nothing wrong with " a man has to know his limitations" Dirty Harry. I was taught by some of the best and at that time I had no idea of what to really do but I was full of myself and thought I knew it all. Peace
Great analysis... the other segment you allude to are the "well-off". Maybe not a guy with hundreds of millions in cash, but someone who has done well....In the US, economy just got bailed out, so big corporations are relatively "fine". The stock market is between 23,000-24,000. If someone has been investing all of their life, and has a good cash cushion, now is the time to get that expensive system or piece of gear they have always wanted, and possibly shave off some of the luxury pricing.
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |