Wire for subwoofer hook up

[elescher]

I recently added a pair of Rythmik 12" subs to my Vivid G2 speakers. I decided to exchange them for the same version but in a 15 inch size and would like to get some feedback to make sure I am on the right track.

My ASR amp does not have variable outputs so I am hooking up to my speaker posts. This is the wire I have been using and just want confirmation (or not) on whether this is doing the job for me, or should I spend more for something different/better? My main spkr cables are EnKlein David but not sure it matters. TIA.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_duelund.html. It is the 26 Ga 2.0 version 2. I have @ 6 ft.

Steve

 

[Steve Williams]

Why off your amps?

Why not take a line out of your preamp esp if you have a Line 1 and Line 2 out. My preamp has this and I use Line 1 for my source and Line 2 for the subs. This way I can turn line 2 on or off depending on what music I am playing

 

[garylkoh]

I recently added a pair of Rythmik 12" subs to my Vivid G2 speakers. I decided to exchange them for the same version but in a 15 inch size and would like to get some feedback to make sure I am on the right track.

My ASR amp does not have variable outputs so I am hooking up to my speaker posts. This is the wire I have been using and just want confirmation (or not) on whether this is doing the job for me, or should I spend more for something different/better? My main spkr cables are EnKlein David but not sure it matters. TIA.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_duelund.html. It is the 26 Ga 2.0 version 2. I have @ 6 ft.

Steve

The Rythmik subs are high impedance inputs because you are driving an active servo-controlled amplifier. I would not recommend a high-inductance hook-up. If you use the cable you posted, twist them tightly together to reduce the impedance and raise the capacitance.

That is the correct way to hook up using the speaker posts of the ASR. This would give the bass the same characteristics as the main loudspeaker.

Steve,

Driving the woofer amp using the preamp is the reason why most audiophiles think that if the loudspeaker has powered bass, the bass won't sound the same as the rest of the loudspeaker.

Think of it this way, if you drive the woofers with the preamp, and the midrange with the power amp and you change the power amp, say from a solid-state amp to a tube amp or vice versa, the sound of the midrange will change, but not the sound of the bass. It is difficult if not impossible to achieve a seamless coherence between the woofer and the midrange if you hook up that way.

 

[Steve Williams]

The Rythmik subs are high impedance inputs because you are driving an active servo-controlled amplifier. I would not recommend a high-inductance hook-up. If you use the cable you posted, twist them tightly together to reduce the impedance and raise the capacitance.

That is the correct way to hook up using the speaker posts of the ASR. This would give the bass the same characteristics as the main loudspeaker.

Steve,

Driving the woofer amp using the preamp is the reason why most audiophiles think that if the loudspeaker has powered bass, the bass won't sound the same as the rest of the loudspeaker.

Think of it this way, if you drive the woofers with the preamp, and the midrange with the power amp and you change the power amp, say from a solid-state amp to a tube amp or vice versa, the sound of the midrange will change, but not the sound of the bass. It is difficult if not impossible to achieve a seamless coherence between the woofer and the midrange if you hook up that way.

I totally agree Gary.In my room it was the easiest solution and I don't always use my subs

 

[elescher]

The Rythmik subs are high impedance inputs because you are driving an active servo-controlled amplifier. I would not recommend a high-inductance hook-up. If you use the cable you posted, twist them tightly together to reduce the impedance and raise the capacitance.

That is the correct way to hook up using the speaker posts of the ASR. This would give the bass the same characteristics as the main loudspeaker.

Steve,

Driving the woofer amp using the preamp is the reason why most audiophiles think that if the loudspeaker has powered bass, the bass won't sound the same as the rest of the loudspeaker.

Think of it this way, if you drive the woofers with the preamp, and the midrange with the power amp and you change the power amp, say from a solid-state amp to a tube amp or vice versa, the sound of the midrange will change, but not the sound of the bass. It is difficult if not impossible to achieve a seamless coherence between the woofer and the midrange if you hook up that way.

Thank you very much Gary for your reply. I will do that first thing tomorrow. I actually thought about doing this while I was hooking them up, but I just didn't know why......so didn't bother. Can you recommend a better alternative to this cable, or will twisting them as you described put me where I want?

 

[DaveyF]

I am not familiar with the Rhythmik subs, but with the REL subs ( that I and several other members use) the better connection is with the high level connection off the amp speaker connections. I posted on another thread ( The Bass is the place) that I recently replaced my stock hook-up REL cable with a Signal REL Speakon link connector cable. The difference was obvious and immediate. Therefore, IMHO the quality of the cable that one uses between the source and the subwoofer is indeed of high importance to maximum SQ.

 

[Rodney Gold]

I have G1's and until recently was using 4 SVS sb13 ultras ..more to smooth the room than augment the LF .. both G1's and G2's have stupendous bass ..
The multiple subs did what they said on the tin.. they smoothed the whole room but bass texture and quality without the subs was better than with them at my listening position ..so I sold all the subs

What I did was use line level output to the subs and did not cross over my mains and used a miniDSP 4x10hd eq on only the subs , making them a snap to integrate , to add a cherry on the top , I used dirac and limited correction to 100hz and below.
I used single ended interconects from my Devialet to the miniDSP and then used balanced from there to the 4 subs

 

[Folsom]

Larger wire is unnecessary. I don't see the value in silver, there just isn't a requirement for anything special to achieve the best possible results for this specific job. Do as Gary said, twist it, or get twisted wire.

The twisted pair may work here. http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_kimber_twst.html (varistrnad) or twisted 20ga here http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_dhlabs.html

But as others have said, if you can use preamp outs they're a much better choice. But also if there's no preamp outs, I prefer to use signal level input with resistors on the cable from amplifier output; sounds a lot cleaner usually.

 

[elescher]

Thanks. I am going to get the DHlabs, and use the other wire I have for something more appropriate....Tripoint Troy grounding wire.

 

[LL21]

...Steve,

Driving the woofer amp using the preamp is the reason why most audiophiles think that if the loudspeaker has powered bass, the bass won't sound the same as the rest of the loudspeaker.

Think of it this way, if you drive the woofers with the preamp, and the midrange with the power amp and you change the power amp, say from a solid-state amp to a tube amp or vice versa, the sound of the midrange will change, but not the sound of the bass. It is difficult if not impossible to achieve a seamless coherence between the woofer and the midrange if you hook up that way.

Hi Gary,

Interesting...the CJ GAT has 2 lineouts and we use one to the Gryphon Colosseum and one to the Velodyne DD18+ (which is cut off above 40hz with a 36db slope). Although I am not sure we have any other way of driving this...i am curious to know whether you think there is that much deleterious effect from running it this way rather than [theoretically] driving the Velodyne from the Colosseum or from another Colosseum. Thanks!

 

[Sablon Audio]

Thanks. I am going to get the DHlabs, and use the other wire I have for something more appropriate....Tripoint Troy grounding wire.

Hi Steve, I would go for a much larger gauge using a high level output for your sub. Twisted pair of 12awg neotech solid core or similar, Rgds Mark

 

[LL21]

Thanks. I am going to get the DHlabs, and use the other wire I have for something more appropriate....Tripoint Troy grounding wire.

Hi Steve, I would go for a much larger gauge using a high level output for your sub. Twisted pair of 12awg neotech solid core or similar, Rgds Mark

I am totally out of my depth here, except to say Sablon Audio has never steered me wrong on cables. Good luck, Elescher.

 

[Folsom]

The only reason to use larger wire is if you're connecting the fullrange speakers to the output on the subwoofer amp. You wire in parallel, so it's not a concern; wires for speakers leave from amp, and wires for subs lave from amp.

 

[garylkoh]

Thank you very much Gary for your reply. I will do that first thing tomorrow. I actually thought about doing this while I was hooking them up, but I just didn't know why......so didn't bother. Can you recommend a better alternative to this cable, or will twisting them as you described put me where I want?

The quality of the wire matters but no need to go crazy since the resolution in the lower frequencies over the practical length of the wires you use won't even hit a thousandth of a wavelength. If you had followed my cable experiments years and years ago..... the best cable would be to cut-up a good quality ethernet cable, and selectively use the wires internally. You want a balance of inductance and capacitance. Look at the construction of an ethernet cable and you'll understand.

Since almost zero current flows through this wire, you are looking for voltage sensing so use as fine a wire as appropriate. I usually recommend from 18awg (max) to 24awg. Even when you are wiring into the high-level inputs of the subwoofer, you are not putting in current but voltage.

 

[garylkoh]

Hi Gary,

Interesting...the CJ GAT has 2 lineouts and we use one to the Gryphon Colosseum and one to the Velodyne DD18+ (which is cut off above 40hz with a 36db slope). Although I am not sure we have any other way of driving this...i am curious to know whether you think there is that much deleterious effect from running it this way rather than [theoretically] driving the Velodyne from the Colosseum or from another Colosseum. Thanks!

Lloyd,
you don't need another Colosseum to drive the Velodyne as it has it's own built-in amp. Driving it from the output of the Colosseum would sound far better and allow for better coherence to your Wilsons. The Velodyne does have high-level inputs just for this purpose.

 

[garylkoh]

Hi Steve, I would go for a much larger gauge using a high level output for your sub. Twisted pair of 12awg neotech solid core or similar, Rgds Mark

Mark,

The drive cable for a powered subwoofer is more like an interconnect than it like a speaker cable. Hence, I would not recommend anything larger than 18awg.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,
you don't need another Colosseum to drive the Velodyne as it has it's own built-in amp. Driving it from the output of the Colosseum would sound far better and allow for better coherence to your Wilsons. The Velodyne does have high-level inputs just for this purpose.

Hi Gary...thanks for that. How exactly do i do what you suggest? Am i taking a 2nd set of speaker cables from the Colosseum and running to the speaker inputs on the back of Velodyne? (I am told by Velodyne people that these speaker inputs on the back of the Velodyne are not good...teeny little 'flip tab' speaker inputs like on the back of a boom box.)

 

[RogerD]

The Rythmik subs are high impedance inputs because you are driving an active servo-controlled amplifier. I would not recommend a high-inductance hook-up. If you use the cable you posted, twist them tightly together to reduce the impedance and raise the capacitance.

That is the correct way to hook up using the speaker posts of the ASR. This would give the bass the same characteristics as the main loudspeaker.

Steve,

Driving the woofer amp using the preamp is the reason why most audiophiles think that if the loudspeaker has powered bass, the bass won't sound the same as the rest of the loudspeaker.

Think of it this way, if you drive the woofers with the preamp, and the midrange with the power amp and you change the power amp, say from a solid-state amp to a tube amp or vice versa, the sound of the midrange will change, but not the sound of the bass. It is difficult if not impossible to achieve a seamless coherence between the woofer and the midrange if you hook up that way.

Hi Gary,

Interesting...the CJ GAT has 2 lineouts and we use one to the Gryphon Colosseum and one to the Velodyne DD18+ (which is cut off above 40hz with a 36db slope). Although I am not sure we have any other way of driving this...i am curious to know whether you think there is that much deleterious effect from running it this way rather than [theoretically] driving the Velodyne from the Colosseum or from another Colosseum. Thanks!

Lloyd,
you don't need another Colosseum to drive the Velodyne as it has it's own built-in amp. Driving it from the output of the Colosseum would sound far better and allow for better coherence to your Wilsons. The Velodyne does have high-level inputs just for this purpose.

I learned something new about my FSR-18........thank you Gary!

 

[garylkoh]

Hi Gary...thanks for that. How exactly do i do what you suggest? Am i taking a 2nd set of speaker cables from the Colosseum and running to the speaker inputs on the back of Velodyne? (I am told by Velodyne people that these speaker inputs on the back of the Velodyne are not good...teeny little 'flip tab' speaker inputs like on the back of a boom box.)

Yuck - I didn't realize that Velodyne would put flip tap speaker inputs on the DD18!!! That's just wrong for such a good sub.

Anyway, yes - take a second set of cables from the Colosseum to the speaker inputs on the back of the Velodyne, or take a set of cables from the input binding posts of the Wilson to the Velodyne. Since the input impedance should be at least 25k ohms, it would not affect the sound of your Wilsons in any way. However, don't use a pair of speaker cables for this. Use a small twisted-pair. Max of 18awg.

 

[Folsom]

Actually Cat5/6 is slightly higher capacitance than other cables. It works fine, but regular old twisted is little better. I suppose it depends how much you want to spend. For subwoofers that little bit of capacitance isn't as big of a deal, but they make really mediocre interconnects for fullrange.

Here's some information on how to run it into signal level. Again I've found much greater definition in bass doing it this way...

Link; this does not work with balanced output amplifiers