YG Acoustics Announces Sonja XV Loudspeaker

[Folsom]

My room is not a purpose built room, and I do not think a purpose built room is a necessary prerequisite to achieving great sound. On the other hand, I think the systems of audiophiles who do not have purpose built rooms and who have worked on and refined and optimized their systems for years may be what I call "room limited," meaning that they have taken their current components in their current rooms as far as they can go towards achieving realistic sound reproduction, and only the removal of the entire system to a larger room or otherwise better room or a purpose built room would enable them to improve upon their sound reproduction.

Prove it Sir! Put a stereo in the room.

 

[Carlos269]

I understand, and I agree with you. You are questioning how an audiophile can know his system is finally optimized. But that point is different than the point I'm making.

I am saying hypothetically that once I system is optimized it is then what I "room limited," and can be improved upon only by moving the whole system to a better room.

Your system is probably now room limited. Jeff T's system is probably now room limited. (That is why I am so excited for him to move the existing system into a purpose built room!)

What determines if you are “room limited”? What is the formula or explicit process for achieving the state or making the determination of a system being “room limited”? In simpler words, how do you know that you are “room limited”? Curious to read your response. Thanks in advance.

 

[Rhapsody]

@Rhapsody I didn't. I edited my post and removed all references to other brands. Didn't mean to derail this thread.

Don't mind me, I'm sitting in a Tornado watch/crazy storm today, trying to kick up some dirt

 

[chuck]

I don't think XVs require a purpose built room, whatever that is. The XV's room was an existing 15x20 room that I modified with double drywall. Does that make it "purpose built?"

 

[Ron Resnick]

What determines if you are “room limited”? What is the formula or explicit process for achieving the state or making the determination of a system being “room limited”? In simpler words, how do you know that you are “room limited”?

. . .

I don't know. I did not suggest that I do know.

I am postulating a theoretical construct, not providing a practical, factual guideline or formula.

It is up to individual audiophiles to conclude that they "have worked on and refined and optimized their systems for years" and that "they have taken their current components in their current rooms as far as they can go towards achieving realistic sound reproduction." See Post #96. Whatever that point is for each audiophile is the point I'm talking about.

And at that point only a better room will improve the sound of the system, because, to that audiophile, every other component has been optimized.

 

[Carlos269]

I don't know. I did not suggest that I do know.

I am postulating a theoretical construct, not providing a practical, factual guideline or formula.

It is up to individual audiophiles to conclude that they "have worked on and refined and optimized their systems for years" and that "they have taken their current components in their current rooms as far as they can go towards achieving realistic sound reproduction." See Post #96. Whatever that point is for each audiophile is the point I'm talking about.

And at that point only a better room will improve the sound of the system, because, to that audiophile, every other component has been optimized.

As a hypothetical mental exercise that logic makes sense, but I don’t know how you implement it the real world, in practical terms. I think that we can all agree that different speakers have different acoustic responses and characteristics in any one particular room. Following that logic would lead one to build a purpose built room around that particular set of speakers, and electronics, in order to achieve greater system optimization and remove the “room limitation”. If the owner were to change speakers would he then follow the same hypothetical logic and exercise to built another purpose built room for his new set of speakers? Just looking at the examples of the purpose built rooms that I’m familiar with they were not designed around a particular set of speakers or the owner had either not heard, purchased or changed speakers during or after the purpose built room was completed. This is quite a quagmire indeed.

 

[microstrip]

I understand, and I agree with you. You are questioning how an audiophile can know his system is finally optimized. But that point is different than the point I'm making.

I am saying hypothetically that once I system is optimized it is then what I "room limited," and can be improved upon only by moving the whole system to a better room.

Your system is probably now room limited. Jeff T's system is probably now room limited. (That is why I am so excited for him to move the existing system into a purpose built room!)

IMHO a stereo system is never fully optimized - there is no standard to evaluate it. And IMHO the main limitation of a room is just size if we are an open mind audiophile. There is so much diversity in equipment and stereo building strategies that it is possible to go over most acoustic problems unless our room is a cube of glass or similar.

 

[KeithR]

A couple of interesting ideas, worth being debated, presented in a condescending and insulting style that precludes any further discussion about such subjects in WBF in the future. IMHO moderators should care about this type of posts - these provocative flaming posts only prepare the field for duels, not for debates. All IMHO, YMMV.

If you can't stand the heat...

 

[jeff1225]

Let me be quite clear, you do not need a purpose-built room to achieve great sound with 4 tower, 6 tower or any speaker set-up. In most cases, these purpose-built rooms are about vanity and nothing else. I speak from experience. I’m trying not to be pedantic, but very basic knowledge and understanding of the laws of physics will get you a long ways to proper system set up and optimizations. I sure hope that people are not buying into this purpose-built room nonsense. As an example look at those that have had purpose built rooms designed and built by acousticians and experts only to end up undoing and changing the design to their “personal preferences” or based on comments from guest. Knowledge is power.

If you on the other hand just want to connect a bunch of high-dollar expensive equipment together and poof! expect it to sound great in any room then yes, you better get some help. My experience in this hobby has shown that there are many participants with deep pockets that simply do not have a clue about what is really going on, either electrically or acoustically; this is a great invitation to the purpose-built rooms and other unnecessary excesses that unfortunately permeate our great hobby.

To say that dedicated rooms and or purpose-built rooms are for "vanity and nothing else" might be one of the ridiculous statements I've seen on WBF.

 

[Carlos269]

To say that dedicated rooms and or purpose-built rooms are for "vanity and nothing else" might be one of the ridiculous statements I've seen on WBF.

Maybe I’m being too rigorous and thinking on another level about this.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . Following that logic would lead one to build a purpose built room around that particular set of speakers, and electronics, in order to achieve greater system optimization and remove the “room limitation”. If the owner were to change speakers would he then follow the same hypothetical logic and exercise to built another purpose built room for his new set of speakers?

. . .

I have never thought of building a dedicated listening room to solve for the acoustic issues of a particular set of speakers. I think of building a dedicated listening room consistent with objective standards of acoustics theory (maybe Golden Ratio dimensions, non-parallel side walls, no mirrors or glass, etc.).

I think of different speakers in that dedicated listening room as occasioning perhaps different absorption or diffusion treatment on the walls or different locations for acoustic panels to deal with first reflections.

If MikeL switched to panel speakers I do not think any wholesale redesign or modification of his purpose built listening room would be seriously considered. Switching to panel speakers might occasion slightly different treatment on the front wall, or something like that, but that's it.

 

[sbnx]

Is a purpose built room necessary? Of course not. Good sound can be had in a non-dedicated room. However, domestic considerations become the issue. Most people don't want any acoustic treatment in their living room and they don't want he speakers out in the middle of it either.

Let's do an Einstein thought experiment. Imagine we have a wealthy executive who lives in a very nice luxury condo on the 40th floor. He decides he wants the best (what ever that is) and buys a YG XV system. He puts this in his living room up against the wall with his 80" flat panel between them. The wall to the left is a full glass panel wall and the floor is covered in tile. Is he listening to the speakers or the room?? The sound would be a cacophony. The bass would be horrible with no real stereo imaging and zero depth. This is certainly not the sound the speaker is capable of delivering. Is this the speakers fault -- no. It is the rooms fault. Physics indeed!

In a non-dedicated room it is very difficult to pull the speaker 3-4 feet (minimum) from the front wall and still live in it. At some point buying bigger speakers won't help the sound and in fact may sound worse.

In the above story I don't fault the guy for buying the YG's. It's his money and he worked hard for it. Spend it how you will. In his case ignorance is bliss.

 

[sbnx]

I forgot to add that a dedicated room does not mean great sound. Anyone who thinks they can just build out an acoustically treated dedicated room, put their gear in it and just like that great sound pops out is very misguided.

The comment about many people with acuostially designed spaces changing them up to suit their taste is spot on. As hard as they try acousticians can't get it 100% right with models. It takes a certain degree of experimentation in the room to get is dialed in.

 

[Alrainbow]

A dedicated room is just the next step , nothing attached or sinister intended about it ...

 

[Carlos269]

I have never thought of building a dedicated listening room to solve for the acoustic issues of a particular set of speakers. I think of building a dedicated listening room consistent with objective standards of acoustics theory (maybe Golden Ratio dimensions, non-parallel side walls, no mirrors or glass, etc.).

I think of different speakers in that dedicated listening room as occasioning perhaps different absorption or diffusion treatment on the walls or different locations for acoustic panels to deal with first reflections.

If MikeL switched to panel speakers I do not think any wholesale redesign or modification of his purpose built listening room would be seriously considered. Switching to panel speakers might occasion slightly different treatment on the front wall, or something like that, but that's it.

If one were to build a room without consideration for the speakers, then we could possibly formulate what a “good room” is supposed to be in terms of “good acoustical practices”. If such a room were to be developed and specified, which I have not seen, then shouldn’t we all be striving for and building this same “ideal” room?

 

[Alrainbow]

Dave and Mike, Is a room’s influence on the overall sound greater or lesser when one listens in the near field as Mike does in his purpose built room to his four tower system?

Do you think a distributed subwoofer system would provide more or less performance in a room and speaker system like Mike has with the MM7?

Distributed subwoofers are best for AV systems , if for 2 ch stereo playback subwoofer energy distribution has to match the other drivers distribution of power, Time and arrival delivery or no realism ..

 

[jeff1225]

Maybe I’m being too rigorous and thinking on another level about this.

#1 reason to have a dedicated room = wife doing dishes during the final movement of Scheherazade.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Maybe I’m being too rigorous and thinking on another level about this.

Most likely yes.

 

[andromedaaudio]

#1 reason to have a dedicated room = wife doing dishes dying the final movement of Scheherazade.

I live temporarily in brussels for my work in an old 1900 s style rental house .
High ceilings beautifull house but noisy as hell.

 

[sbnx]

If one were to build a room without consideration for the speakers, then we could possibly formulate what a “good room” is supposed to be in terms of “good acoustical practices”. If such a room were to be developed and specified, which I have not seen, then shouldn’t we all be striving for and building this same “ideal” room?

I wish. It would be nice if you could call 1-800-Dedicated-Room and pick from 3 or 4 sizes that have all been built, treated, tweaked, measured etc. But as you point out different speakers would interact differently. Ported speakers vs. sealed. Side firing woofers vs. front mount. Big panels vs. dynamic box. etc. Even what frequency the port is tuned to makes a difference in where the speakers would end up. This would be a huge and expensive scientific undertaking.

Maybe someday an eccentric billionaire who is also an avid audiophile would just pour a ton of money into this endeavor. Seems just as worthy as launching comfortable rockets into space.