YG Acoustics Announces Sonja XV Loudspeaker

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Mike Lavigne

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Which would you rather have a purpose built room optimized for one particular set of speakers and set-up or adaptive response? The point I was making is that designing a room to compensate for or optimize a particular 4 tower system marries you to that set-up; because in the physical world there is no universal or one-size-fits-all when it comes to room acoustics.

Do you have any experience with electronic bass traps?

Carlos,

you are over thinking the idea of a purpose built room. it's not realistic to build a room, plunk down speakers, and expect magic. no one here has done that, nor found that to be how it worked out after spending time. small room acoustics are just not that predictable. you have to work to sort out any room.

my first 3-6 months in my new room were euphoric, then as i slowly woke up to what was not happening i messed around for 10 years figuring out my purpose built room. but the room never held me back, i held myself back.

all a purpose built room allows for is to not have the room be the limitation. it removes most of the 'what-if's'. so your ceiling is higher. and it can look however it needs to.

putting up with an existing domestic room means settling for various limitations, or signal path manipulations which many of us won't consider.

some rooms in homes simply sound great naturally. my first room was one of those rooms, but just too small for big music. a limitation. it took years to get my new purpose built room to sound as magical as that small room. but about 5 years ago the new room passed by that original small room and has never looked back.

i've owned 4 different high level speaker systems in my purpose built room; looking back any of them could have been really well sorted out in this room if i would have been up to the task when i owned them.
 
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Carlos269

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What is this one size fits all ..?

room acoustic treatments , diffusors , et al were created to help those in need , BTW once you have the correct dimensions to satisfy your desired low FC cutoff , the rest is academic , its not rocket propulsion with return landing pad accuracy . .


:)

I’m not sure whoever said that it was hard. Certainly not difficult for me to achieve great sounds from a great variety of environments. Again I speak from well documented experience.

It sounds like you are up to the task of designing an “ideal” purpose built room, talk is cheap and it is easy to hide behind a keyboard. Show us some examples of your work.
 
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Rhapsody

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My point is it is legit for a Mdp632 to state his opinion on value, SQ for the amount of money he pays even if he has not heard the M9 in direct comparison to the YG. The YG is obviously less expensive than the Magico. And After all all top speakers with appropriate set up with matching equipments are just sounding exceptional in somewhat different way. So the question you asked which someone viewed as sarcasm should not be intended a sarcasm at the first place.

Sure MDP632 can state his point, which he did, and I can ask my question in any way that I want once the point is stated.

Not looking for your approval or really care about your opinion.
 

Carlos269

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Carlos,

you are over thinking the idea of a purpose built room. it's not realistic to build a room, plunk down speakers, and expect magic. no one here has done that, nor found that to be how it worked out after spending time. small room acoustics are just not that predictable. you have to work to sort out any room.

my first 3-6 months in my new room were euphoric, then as i slowly woke up to what was not happening i messed around for 10 years figuring out my purpose built room. but the room never held me back, i held myself back.

all a purpose built room allows for is to not have the room be the limitation. it removes most of the 'what-if's'. so your ceiling is higher. and it can look however it needs to.

putting up with an existing domestic room means settling for various limitations, or signal path manipulations which many of us won't consider.

some rooms in homes simply sound great naturally. my first room was one of those rooms, but just too small for big music. a limitation. it took years to get my new purpose built room to sound as magical as that small room. but about 5 years ago the new room passed by that original small room and has never looked back.

i've owned 4 different high level speaker systems in my purpose built room; looking back any of them could have been really well sorted out in this room if i would have been up to the task when i owned them.

Mike you are making this too easy, now I’m having to resort to cut and paste:

What determines if you are “room limited”? What is the formula or explicit process for achieving the state or making the determination of a system being “room limited”? In simpler words, how do you know that you are “room limited”? Curious to read your response. Thanks in advance.
 

KPC

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Perhaps I’m reading this too literally, but designing a room for a specific set of speakers? We know the speed and wavelengths, wouldn’t a dedicated designed audio room serve most/all speakers? Could it be that different speaker types (box, dipole, omni, etc) and the varying width/height/size/power of speaker transducers are a room designing factor?
 

Carlos269

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Perhaps I’m reading this too literally, but designing a room for a specific set of speakers? We know the speed and wavelengths, wouldn’t a dedicated designed audio room serve most/all speakers? Could it be that different speaker types (box, dipole, omni, etc) and the varying width/height/size/power of speaker transducers are a room designing factor?

If you want to be a purist and an extremist at optimizing a particular set-up, then yes the purpose built room would need be designed around the speakers’ dispersion/radiation pattern and frequency response characteristics. This is an “Uber” approach for those for whom domestic rooms “many of us won't consider”.
 
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Folsom

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From my experience one needs no paying top money on a system to get comparable exceptional sound to most expensive one. But a lot of money is still involved. A lot of money (which is also subjective to whom is talking) can get a person a "better" sound but up to some very high spending and efforts put into, then the "better" diminishes and the "different" set in. It is not my opinion. It is my fact.

It’s true. Even if you DIY a stereo to be as good as yours, you can’t buy the raw parts for peanuts.

A friend of mine who makes more money than I do hears my stereo. He says he really likes it and wants me to help him make one. A few weeks later I bring it up and tell him I know of a nice speaker set that should accommodate his aesthetic and needs is for sale locally. I tell him how much they cost... “why would any ever spend more than $1000 on a stereo, that’s just stupid.” I then inform him he may be a little confused, and delusional about price guessing. He has no stereo. There is no escaping that any good stereo cost a lot more than Bluetooth speaker.

Thing is I think some manufacturers purposely stair step products to price points for end user, not necessarily them. So are all comparisons fair? Maybe not all.
 

sbnx

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You are proselytizing in the wrong forum. Perhaps Amir’s forum would find you in less choppy waters.
 
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Al M.

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Perhaps I’m reading this too literally, but designing a room for a specific set of speakers? We know the speed and wavelengths, wouldn’t a dedicated designed audio room serve most/all speakers? Could it be that different speaker types (box, dipole, omni, etc) and the varying width/height/size/power of speaker transducers are a room designing factor?

Different speaker types will react differently to a room, I would think. Box speakers with cones are sensitive to room issues, dipole and horns perhaps less so because of different radiation patterns.

Designing a room for a specific speaker seems a bit far fetched, but I can well imagine that the setup of different speakers of the same type (e.g., box) in the same room may show preferences for different (movable) room treatments.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike you are making this too easy, now I’m having to resort to cut and paste:

What determines if you are “room limited”? What is the formula or explicit process for achieving the state or making the determination of a system being “room limited”? In simpler words, how do you know that you are “room limited”? Curious to read your response. Thanks in advance.

no rules at all.

but i'd start with the size and shape you think comes closest to allowing you not to need to manipulate the signal path. but that is just my own values applied to the problem. you likely might have a different starting point.

the beauty is doing it how you want to do it.

for myself, and the professional studio designer i paid to design my room, the idea was to mimic a concert hall with it's stage and audience. and........as my reason for wanting a purpose built room was hearing large music sound appropriately 'large'.........giving large speakers room to breathe. i also wanted height and width so i would not be limited. and minimal windows i could plug. i wanted to be on a concrete slab, and have a room built inside a room for noise concerns. and room for plenty of visitors.

few domestic rooms check all those boxes.

i know we did this dance before 10-11 years ago on audiogon. same old Carlos. as i recall i disengaged from the back and forth at a certain point then.
 

Carlos269

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no rules at all.

but i'd start with the size and shape you think comes closest to allowing you not to need to manipulate the signal path. but that is just my own values applied to the problem. you likely might have a different starting point.

the beauty is doing it how you want to do it.

for myself, and the professional studio designer i paid to design my room, the idea was to mimic a concert hall with it's stage and audience. and........as my reason for wanting a purpose built room was hearing large music sound appropriately 'large'.........giving large speakers room to breathe. i also wanted height and width so i would not be limited. and minimal windows i could plug. i wanted to be on a concrete slab, and have a room built inside a room for noise concerns. and room for plenty of visitors.

few domestic rooms check all those boxes.

i know we did this dance before 10-11 years ago on audiogon. same old Carlos. as i recall i disengaged from the back and forth at a certain point then.

Yes, we did. I remember clearly. I haven’t changed and I see that neither have you. I don’t consider myself controversial but rather informed.

Now back to the question, which by the way you didn’t answer other than eyeballing the room size in comparison to the speakers size, concrete slab and no windows. How do you or does one know that their room is a limitation? Or conversely, how does one know that their room is not a limitation? Give me something with substance that I can chew on this time, not some vague notion.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Yes, we did. I remember clearly. I haven’t changed and I see that neither have you. I don’t consider myself controversial but rather informed.

Now back to the question, which by the way you didn’t answer other than eyeballing the room size in comparison to the speakers size, concrete slab and no windows. How do you or does one know that their room is a limitation? Or conversely, how does one know that their room is not a limitation? Give me something with substance that I can chew on this time, not some vague notion.

again; you are reading more into the concept of a purpose built room than what it is. mostly it's just the room you wish you had when you are frustrated. a chance to do it your way. to remove the perceived limits of your previous room.

everyone defines their purpose built room for themselves.

wouldn't it be cool if my room could......dot.....dot.....dot (fill in the blanks).

no rules.

personally i choose to hire someone to design my room. i had a barn with a ground floor with a space, a dirt floor, and a hayloft. we talked about things i wanted, he did some preliminary drawings, then finalized the plan.

today 16 years later likely 90-95% of what he designed remains.i am happy.

lots of people here have taken similar tracks. i'm not the only one.
 

Al M.

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How do you or does one know that their room is a limitation? Or conversely, how does one know that their room is not a limitation? Give me something with substance that I can chew on this time, not some vague notion.

That's easy.

My room is limited since I cannot get the size of an orchestra like I have heard in considerably larger rooms. That's not just a matter of speaker size; put a larger speaker in a not sufficiently large room and you get the same kind of limitation. I think Mike's room is of sufficiently generous dimensions, mine is not.

My room is also limited since I can still hear room distortions, even though I have been able to greatly tame these over the years. A much larger room, also in height, will not have certain distortion problems, e.g., from sidewalls or ceiling, to the same extent.

As for the dimensions of my room: 24 x 12 x 8.5 feet (13.5 feet wide at small window bay).
 

Al M.

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lots of people here have taken similar tracks. i'm not the only one.

While my room is considerably smaller, I can confidently say that taking care of my room acoustics has been responsible for least half of my sound quality, probably more than that. Room acoustics are incredibly important. Some may disagree; it's their loss.
 

Carlos269

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again; you are reading more into the concept of a purpose built room than what it is. mostly it's just the room you wish you had when you are frustrated. a chance to do it your way. to remove the perceived limits of your previous room.

everyone defines their purpose built room for themselves.

wouldn't it be cool if my room could......dot.....dot.....dot (fill in the blanks).

no rules.

personally i choose to hire someone to design my room. i had a barn with a ground floor with a space, a dirt floor, and a hayloft. we talked about things i wanted, he did some preliminary drawings, then finalized the plan.

today 16 years later likely 90-95% of what he designed remains.i am happy.

lots of people here have taken similar tracks. i'm not the only one.

Mike thank you for the honest answer. This explanation goes to my point that most purpose built rooms are mostly about vanity. And there is nothing wrong with that. Simply there is no clear justification for them other than perhaps logistics. Most look very nice, like those purpose built grounding boxes.
 

Carlos269

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That's easy.

My room is limited since I cannot get the size of an orchestra like I have heard in considerably larger rooms. That's not just a matter of speaker size; put a larger speaker in a not sufficiently large room and you get the same kind of limitation. I think Mike's room is of sufficiently generous dimensions, mine is not.

My room is also limited since I can still hear room distortions, even though I have been able to greatly tame these over the years. A much larger room, also in height, will not have certain distortion problems, e.g., from sidewalls or ceiling, to the same extent.

As for the dimensions of my room: 24 x 12 x 8.5 feet (13.5 feet wide at small window bay).

The example seem to be a case where the speakers are not appropriate for the room size. Not a room limitation per se.

Room resonances are easy to address with structural reinforcement; these type of issues that can be mitigated do not necessarily constitute a room limitation.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Mike thank you for the honest answer. This explanation goes to my point that most purpose built rooms are mostly about vanity. And there is nothing wrong with that. Simply there is no clear justification for them other than perhaps logistics. Most look very nice, like those purpose built grounding boxes.

you are welcome.

in a hobby there is an element of vanity in everything one does; a combination of our own anticipated enjoyment, experienced enjoyment, and how we want to be perceived.....and identified.

as far as the 'mostly' part......it's up to the user and their perceptions to judge that for themselves, and others will always have their opinions.
 
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Alrainbow

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I’m not sure whoever said that it was hard. Certainly not difficult for me to achieve great sounds from a great variety of environments. Again I speak from well documented experience.

It sounds like you are up to the task of designing an “ideal” purpose built room, talk is cheap and it is easy to hide behind a keyboard. Show us some examples of your work.

You should go first ...!
 
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Al M.

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The example seem to be a case where the speakers are not appropriate for the room size. Not a room limitation per se.

Haha, you think my speakers are too small for my room? Tell this to all my audiophile visitors who invariably comment on my "big sound". While it's big, it's not big enough for orchestra.

I have heard larger speakers in similar sized rooms; you get similar limitations for the size of soundstage, as I already said (that is different from the body of sound on orchestra, which can indeed be portrayed better by larger speakers).

No, the room is simply too small for appropriate size portrayal of orchestra. Actually, hardly any room is big enough, at least when you take the very wide perspective from the front rows in the hall, which is the perspective of a lot of microphone placement during recordings. A recording from a mid hall perspective is another matter.

Room resonances are easy to address with structural reinforcement; these type of issues that can be mitigated do not necessarily constitute a room limitation.

Of course they do, since the room as such, without additional measures taken, is limited.

By the way, the distortions that I hear depend on certain surfaces, for example, on the ceiling. This is not a matter of structural reinforcement. It's reflections, not resonances. In this case diffusers help.
 
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