Zero Distortion: Tango Time

bonzo75

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This is the first mono cartridge Mr. van den Hul ever made! I had a conversation with him last year and I asked for a mono cartridge as good as master sig and he came through. This is a very special cartridge and I can understand why he was so excited about it, listening to mono records with a cartridge of this caliber is a very special experience completely different to what I've heard with all the other cartridges.

david

I have an email from him that says he made some for Chinese customers. I had asked him about mono carts a year or so ago.
 

ddk

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I have an email from him that says he made some for Chinese customers. I had asked him about mono carts a year or so ago.
That's interesting I had a different conversation with him, did you get any?
david
 

bonzo75

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That's interesting I had a different conversation with him, did you get any?
david

No I didn't get any. If I was to go vdh, A vdh stereo, a non vdh stereo, and a vdh mono adds up to too much for me, as I find the vdh stereo expensive itself despite agreeing on the sonics, but for someone like Tang I think it's a no brainer.

Also at some point I realized there is a trade-off between mono and stereo carts, so the zero is good enough till a point (and I don't like Miyajima stereo but like the zero) but then a better stereo cart like the red sparrow can sound better than the zero on monos, and a good stereo like red sparrow on a LT or the vdh stereo ends up as quite good enough (quite stellar, actually) for monos. So the mono of a costlier brand like Lyra or vdh than becomes an additional luxury spend for those with the funds to push, while if I ever had to, one stereo with an option of Miyajima mono will be sufficient.
 

Folsom

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And there is an approved anti-body test that can be purchased from South Korea that tests the IgG, IgA and IgR for Covid-19. In California you can get one at Dr Dao Medical Group in Garden Grove. He purchased 10,000 from South Korea.

She lives in Idaho. She doesn’t do online.
 

ddk

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David
Is this VdH mono an single coil mono, that does not read vertical modulations at all, to make some beat up records sound nice and quiet?
I have no idea Paul nor do I care about any of that, I listen; it's either natural or wrong. Best description I can give is that it's as special as the stereo counterparts which I prefer to all current cartriges I've heard and own.

david
 
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Tango

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HI Tang

Is this your new cartridge?

Van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru



Dear Shane,

A far as I know, the one you showed is a pinnacle grade cart that he himself handmade. One of the only two existed so far. Sound and Vision must be one of his most audiophile representative to get one. The other one he keeps for his personal use. He expressed that this type of cart takes too much time and effort to do. Not really a production type cartridge. The Mono David gave me is the very same as that Gran Cru revealed in Australia but in Mono..that's about it. VdH product line is always confusing. He knows people like us like to go crazy about every little thing.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

XV-1

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Dear Shane,

A far as I know, the one you showed is a pinnacle grade cart that he himself handmade. One of the only two existed so far. Sound and Vision must be one of his most audiophile representative to get one. The other one he keeps for his personal use. He expressed that this type of cart takes too much time and effort to do. Not really a production type cartridge. The Mono David gave me is the very same as that Gran Cru revealed in Australia but in Mono..that's about it. VdH product line is always confusing. He knows people like us like to go crazy about every little thing.

Kind regards,
Tang

well Tang. Lucky you have a spare couple of arms and tables you can use the new VDH mono on.:cool:

Looking forward to you views as I know you didn't like the Etna mono.

My Atlas SL Lambda is in transit - might get it Friday for some weekend listening or early next week.
 
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Tango

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well Tang. Lucky you have a spare couple of arms and tables you can use the new VDH mono on.:cool:

Looking forward to you views as I know you didn't like the Etna mono.

My Atlas SL Lambda is in transit - might get it Friday for some weekend listening or early next week.
Looking forward to read your feedback on the Lambda as well. I was going to get one too but my money went to the ventilator.
 

pcosta

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I have no idea Paul nor do I care about any of that, I listen; it's either natural or wrong. Best description I can give is that it's as special as the stereo counterparts which I prefer to all current currents I've heard and own.

david

I have never had the opportunity to hear these exotic VdH carts. The best one I have heard is the Frog and a Grasshopper. I need to get out more.
 

bonzo75

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I have no idea Paul nor do I care about any of that, I listen; it's either natural or wrong. Best description I can give is that it's as special as the stereo counterparts which I prefer to all current currents I've heard and own.

david

Paul's question makes sense

1. If you are playing post 60s monos, you do not need a cart like Miya zero with horizontal compliance only - you can have it, but the one with the 0.7mm stylus, not the 1.0 stylus, or you can use the Lyra mono, Koetsu mono, Ikeda mono. Post 60s monos (once the stereo era started), were made with stereo cutter heads, so vertical compliance that exists in the Lyra monos is fine. Carts like Lyra etc are better suited to play both old and new monos.

2. Miya Zero (1.0mm stylus), and EMT OFD 25 monos, have no vertical compliance. They must be used for records from the mono area, which was before stereo was invented. For me personally, this era is the focus. The EMT TMD 25 apparently has vertical compliance unlike the discontinued OFD. Unlike the above category, these cannot be used on modern monos

So, Paul's question is whether it is to be used for old or new mono, and if you found it natural, on which segment.

Of course, a cart from category 1 can sound better than a cart from category 2 on old monos, as can a stereo cart, but that's another subjective discussion
 
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pcosta

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Paul's question makes sense

1. If you are playing post 60s monos, you do not need a cart like Miya zero with horizontal compliance only - you can have it, but the one with the 0.7mm stylus, not the 1.0 stylus, or you can use the Lyra mono, Koetsu mono, Ikeda mono. Post 60s monos (once the stereo era started), were made with stereo cutter heads, so vertical compliance that exists in the Lyra monos is fine. Carts like Lyra etc are better suited to play both old and new monos.

2. Miya Zero (1.0mm stylus), and EMT OFD 25 monos, have no vertical compliance. They must be used for records from the mono area, which was before stereo was invented. For me personally, this era is the focus. The EMT TMD 25 apparently has vertical compliance unlike the discontinued OFD. Unlike the above category, these cannot be used on modern monos

So, Paul's question is whether it is to be used for old or new mono, and if you found it natural, on which segment.

Of course, a cart from category 1 can sound better than a cart from category 2 on old monos, as can a stereo cart, but that's another subjective discussion

Having vertical compliance is not a bad thing. Denon 102 has vertical compliance with a single coil. The stylus size is definitely era dependent, but a 0,7mm will play the early ear mono just fine. I am not sure if the post 60's monos used a stereo cutter head in those days. I believe that is a current trend with record manufacturers not having a mono cutting heads anymore to make mono reissues is what is common these days. From what I know I believe Classic Records used to cut their mono reissues with a mono cutting head. Don't quote me on any of this stuff. I am not 100% knowledgeable in all thing mono.
 

bonzo75

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Having vertical compliance is not a bad thing. Denon 102 has vertical compliance with a single coil. The stylus size is definitely era dependent, but a 0,7mm will play the early ear mono just fine. I am not sure if the post 60's monos used a stereo cutter head in those days. I believe that is a current trend with record manufacturers not having a mono cutting heads anymore to make mono reissues is what is common these days. From what I know I believe Classic Records used to cut their mono reissues with a mono cutting head. Don't quote me on any of this stuff. I am not 100% knowledgeable in all thing mono.

I am not saying it is a bad thing. But if there was only horizontal compliance, you cannot play those on modern records, you risk ruining the records. If it has both horizontal and vertical, you can use on both, though the horizontal ones at least had the reputation of being dedicated to the older records, partly to keep the down the noise. And yes, the stylus width is a separate thing, but Miyajima chose to have the 1.0 dedicated to older records with the vertical compliance. Again, if it sounds better or not on them is again part of the game

@montesquieu would have done a number of compares with both
 
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pcosta

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I am not saying it is a bad thing. But if there was only horizontal compliance, you cannot play those on modern records, you risk ruining the records. If it has both horizontal and vertical, you can use on both, though the horizontal ones at least had the reputation of being dedicated to the older records, partly to keep the down the noise. And yes, the stylus width is a separate thing, but Miyajima chose to have the 1.0 dedicated to older records with the vertical compliance. Again, if it sounds better or not on them is again part of the game

@montesquieu would have done a number of compares with both

bonzo75 is it the vertical/horizontal compliance that cancels the noise or the single coil that doesn't read the vertical?
 

bonzo75

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bonzo75 is it the vertical/horizontal compliance that cancels the noise or the single coil that doesn't read the vertical?

Not sure
 

ddk

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Paul's question makes sense

1. If you are playing post 60s monos, you do not need a cart like Miya zero with horizontal compliance only - you can have it, but the one with the 0.7mm stylus, not the 1.0 stylus, or you can use the Lyra mono, Koetsu mono, Ikeda mono. Post 60s monos (once the stereo era started), were made with stereo cutter heads, so vertical compliance that exists in the Lyra monos is fine. Carts like Lyra etc are better suited to play both old and new monos.

2. Miya Zero (1.0mm stylus), and EMT OFD 25 monos, have no vertical compliance. They must be used for records from the mono area, which was before stereo was invented. For me personally, this era is the focus. The EMT TMD 25 apparently has vertical compliance unlike the discontinued OFD. Unlike the above category, these cannot be used on modern monos

So, Paul's question is whether it is to be used for old or new mono, and if you found it natural, on which segment.

Of course, a cart from category 1 can sound better than a cart from category 2 on old monos, as can a stereo cart, but that's another subjective discussion

I didn't say Paul's question doesn't have merit just didn't think about it because vdH's sound quality is great. It's likely not a single coil true mono but it's a wonderful and different sounding mono cartridge.

IME EMT OFD and TMD sound great on both early mono pressings and later microgroove vinyl records. I can say the same for Miya Zero 1mm, Ortofon SPU and this vdH mono. At any given time I have 15-20 cartridges to play with and simply don't remember nor care about the specs or fat and skinny needles. I'll play the same record with any of them and if I like it with one cartridge, I'll enjoy it with all of them and vice versa with none of them. That's just my approach to audio and things I don't build. Did you ever worry about vertical/horizontal compliance before you saw in Miyajima's marketing literature :)? That's the domain of the designer not so much the consumer.

david
 
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pcosta

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I recently sold my Ortofon Cadenza Mono. Great cart and I only sold it to later get a EMT TMD for my EMT turntable. I have a good friend who has a TMD 25 and I love listening to that cart.
 
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ddk

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I recently sold my Ortofon Cadenza Mono. Great cart and I only sold it to later get a EMT TMD for my EMT turntable. I have a good friend who has a TMD 25 and I love listening to that cart.
How's the 927 doing?

david
 

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