Magico introduced the Q series subwoofers

[stereo]

This is really great...so I have to now ask you some more question. Relative to those subs...what really happens when you put the Q15 in? Specifically:
- Scale...does your system's scale actually increase in macrodynamics (both mids/treble and bass?)
- Does the soundstage of the venue deepen or expand in terms of the sense of space?
- Do you find that the bass is far more nimble/quick and yet powerful?
- If so...did the active crossover change the performance of your mids/treble dramatically?

I know that subs do all of these things when set up well...what I am trying to understand is WHERE THE QSUB15 MADE THE MOST DIFFERENCES RELATIVE TO OTHER SUBS YOU HAVE TRIED. I AM TRULY CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT SUB (AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE TRIED IN THE PAST)...AND THEN GO UP TO THE LEVEL OF THE Q15.

Sorry to be so persistent, but I am a bass-freak (not loud, just exceptionally articulate, powerful)...and so it is exciting to ask questions of someone who has spend a few weeks in his own system with the QSub15. Thanks!!!

Having heard both Qsub-15 and Qsub-18, I would say that how they outperform any other subs I have heard (to quote a few good ones, this includes Velodyne, Wilson sub, torus, and of course my Fathom JL audio) is:
- much cleaner, detailed bass. People wrongly believe there is little micro-information in the bass. Hear a Qsub and you will change your mind.
- how loud they can play without any distortion. In particular, the Qsub-18 is crazy. As I already mentioned, not sure who needs it, one or 2 Qsub15 probably enough ;-)
- much much tighter bass. Membrane moves fast and stops fast.
- higher sense of "easiness"
- Sophistication and flexibility of their filter (for sure, some others have good interfaces for crossover definition, but not my Fathom).
It is the combination of all above that makes it possible to integrate them with very transparent and fast speakers like the Q-series.
Of course, you can pile up 6 fathoms and get the same SPL as with one Qsub, but you will never get the micro-informations and the tightness of the bass.
As I already posted on this forum, I am not so much of a sub guy... I think that a Q7 would for example easily outperfom the combination of a Q3 and one or 2 Qsubs... even if the comparison is not fair as it would still cost 2-3 times more... So as a way to build a "cheap" very large system, it is a very interesting idea. and for complete bass freaks, it can bring even large systems to the next level.

Btw, the improvement in imaging from using 2 Qsubs vs. only one is far from being insignificant.

 

[PeterA]

Espen, I think you are trying one Qsub. Are you considering a second one?

 

[FrantzM]

Stereo

We are usually on the same page, not this time though.

The "micro information" you referred to are not from the bass they are further up in frequency. I also think that if you were to use 6 Fathoms it is most likely that you would get lower distortion since each one Fathom would work in its most linear region. Further, by scattering these within the room you surely would have gotten a flatter response in the bass. As for the filters it is good that the Q15 or Q18 possess sophisticated version of such but I would there again, go with an external filter/crossover even if I would not include it in the main signal path.

I , also, remain convinced that the Q3 with subs is a world-speaker level speaker system. The more I hear the Q3, the more I am convinced that few transducers out there have such a low level of coloration. So low are the distortions and coloration introduced by the Q series that it takes for many audiophiles a good amount of time to finally come to grip with the purity and veracity of the reproduction. So much musical information is faithfully presented/reproduced. though that calm and objective listening sessions come to reveal the spectacular (and superior) wealth of information those speakers provide.

Many ways to skin a cat , some are better than others, all that, IMO, etc. I have not heard the Q subs but with subs, it is usually a matter of integration and of making sure you work within their linear region. IMHO in most rooms, more subs = equal better bass.

 

[cannata]

Stereo

We are usually on the same page, not this time though.

The "micro information" you referred to are not from the bass they are further up in frequency. I also think that if you were to use 6 Fathoms it is most likely that you would get lower distortion since each one Fathom would work in its most linear region. Further, by scattering these within the room you surely would have gotten a flatter response in the bass. As for the filters it is good that the Q15 or Q18 possess sophisticated version of such but I would there again, go with an external filter/crossover even if I would not include it in the main signal path.

I , also, remain convinced that the Q3 with subs is a world-speaker level speaker system. The more I hear the Q3, the more I am convinced that few transducers out there have such a low level of coloration. So low are the distortions and coloration introduced by the Q series that it takes for many audiophiles a good amount of time to finally come to grip with the purity and veracity of the reproduction. So much musical information is faithfully presented/reproduced. though that calm and objective listening sessions come to reveal the spectacular (and superior) wealth of information those speakers provide.

Many ways to skin a cat , some are better than others, all that, IMO, etc. I have not heard the Q subs but with subs, it is usually a matter of integration and of making sure you work within their linear region. IMHO in most rooms, more subs = equal better bass.

This is all true, but I wonder about the typical MDF/resin subs. Being overdamped in nature, they most likely add a lot of distortion to the output. The low distortion you are hearing on the Q (or the S) series are, in a major part, a byproduct of a superb stiff enclosure. I would think it will be even more critical on a sub.

 

[Roysen]

This is all true, but I wonder about the typical MDF/resin subs. Being overdamped in nature, they most likely add a lot of distortion to the output. The low distortion you are hearing on the Q (or the S) series are, in a major part, a byproduct of a superb stiff enclosure. I would think it will be even more critical on a sub.

In regards to subwoofer integration with fullrange loudspeakers, the main horse I like to beat over and over again is that the main objective should be to make the subwoofers complement the main speakers and not the other way around. The subwoofers should be a tool to extend and make the main speakers sound better. I would never crossover with a big overlap based on reasoning that the subwoofer is better than the main speakers in certain frequency areas. I would always only use very little overlap and let the subwoofers only handle the area below the main speakers where the main speakers don't play. The main speakers will always be most coherent when playing alone within its own frequency range without interferance with the subwoofer. So the subwoofer should be kept out of play within the main speakers frequency range.

 

[EspenL]

Espen, I think you are trying one Qsub. Are you considering a second one?

I do not think there will be any Sub No 2, Because I have my system in the living room and it is not very big .My wife will not like that I come home with Sub No 2
That would be a little bit better with a Sub no 2 i probably believe, but do not feel I need one more.

Espen

 

[EspenL]

Hi
Here are some pictures of my Q Sub and my system
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet...1-espen-s-burmestersystem-28.html#post1899017

Espen

 

[PeterA]

Hi
Here are some pictures of mine Q Sub and my system
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet...1-espen-s-burmestersystem-28.html#post1899017

Espen

Nice looking system. Isn't there a second sub driver on the other end of the enclosure? If so, is the second driver firing directly into the corner?

 

[EspenL]

Nice looking system. Isn't there a second sub driver on the other end of the enclosure? If so, is the second driver firing directly into the corner?

Hi

Here lie the image, it is about 60 cm from the wall to the sub, so it's no problem.

Espen

 

[Elliot G.]

I might suggest gentleman to try using subs in a line source array. Take 4 JL F-113's stack two on two and use the new JL crossover and you will find an amazing system that not only can kick ass but also with some work blend beautifully.
The cost of such is about 19k for the whole deal. Trust me its really good and if you want to go crazy stack three on three.
One mans opinion.

 

[PeterA]

I might suggest gentleman to try using subs in a line source array. Take 4 JL F-113's stack two on two and use the new JL crossover and you will find an amazing system that not only can kick ass but also with some work blend beautifully.
The cost of such is about 19k for the whole deal. Trust me its really good and if you want to go crazy stack three on three.
One mans opinion.

Elliot, are the cabinets really that inert to not vibrate at all or effect the cabinets below or above? I would think that multiple large drivers stacked in a single cabinet would have less coloration.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, are the cabinets really that inert to not vibrate at all or effect the cabinets below or above? I would think that multiple large drivers stacked in a single cabinet would have less coloration.

If you try it you will see. It works amazingly well.
Don't get paralysis by analysis. the cabinets do NOT interfere with each other.
Graphs and expensive machines do not tell the whole musical truth.

 

[FrantzM]

If you try it you will see. It works amazingly well.
Don't get paralysis by analysis. the cabinets do NOT interfere with each other.
Graphs and expensive machines do not tell the whole musical truth.

In this very instance graph would tell that your solution will have to be better than one Q ... BTW I love the Q3 and it could well be my next speakers supplemented by several subwoofers likely Seaton Submersive ...

 

[microstrip]

(...) Graphs and expensive machines do not tell the whole musical truth.

+1.

Particularly in assessing the real quality of bass in rooms. I use REW to diagnose problems, but not to assess the quality of the solution. Disclaimer - I am not a bass expert!

 

[LL21]

Hi
Here are some pictures of my Q Sub and my system
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet...1-espen-s-burmestersystem-28.html#post1899017

Espen

That sub looks awesome...enjoy!!!

 

[stereo]

I might suggest gentleman to try using subs in a line source array. Take 4 JL F-113's stack two on two and use the new JL crossover and you will find an amazing system that not only can kick ass but also with some work blend beautifully.
The cost of such is about 19k for the whole deal. Trust me its really good and if you want to go crazy stack three on three.
One mans opinion.

I own a pair of JL F-113. No way they sound as well as even a single Qsub-15... unfortunately. They just don't have the bass resolution of a Qsub

 

[Elliot G.]

I own a pair of JL F-113. No way they sound as well as even a single Qsub-15... unfortunately. They just don't have the bass resolution of a Qsub

I said to use 4 two double stacked with,,,,WITH the JL electronic crossover Sir
Please read what I wrote.
I did not say it was better than what I have not heard. However 30 k for a single woofer with no electronic crossover is a lot of KASSSSSSH

 

[EspenL]

I said to use 4 two double stacked with,,,,WITH the JL electronic crossover Sir
Please read what I wrote.
I did not say it was better than what I have not heard. However 30 k for a single woofer with no electronic crossover is a lot of KASSSSSSH

Hi
unfortunately, quality costs, that's life. I have tried many subwoofers in the past but no one is close to what a Qsub can do unfortunately, it is my opinion and my ears

Espen

 

[PeterA]

If you try it you will see. It works amazingly well.
Don't get paralysis by analysis. the cabinets do NOT interfere with each other.
Graphs and expensive machines do not tell the whole musical truth.

Elliot, Whose talking about graphs and expensive machines? I believe first and foremost in listening. If someone can support great sound through a description of the science behind the design, I'll pay attention and learn something. I was just asking you about cabinet vibrations and stacking sealed enclosures. I put my hand on a subwoofer or main speaker cabinet and see if I can feel vibrations. I also listen to hear distortions from cabinets.

I did try some JL F110 subs in my system. They were fairly inert but not perfect. They sounded fine but after a great deal of effort to integrate them with my speakers, I decided that they ultimately detracted from the overall clarity of my system. Even though I got a pretty good deal on them in order to try them in my system, I took quite a hit when I tried to sell them. Perhaps my opinion would change if I heard them stacked and properly set up in a dealer's listening room.

 

[PeterA]

I said to use 4 two double stacked with,,,,WITH the JL electronic crossover Sir
Please read what I wrote.
I did not say it was better than what I have not heard. However 30 k for a single woofer with no electronic crossover is a lot of KASSSSSSH

I think the Qsub has two woofers.