Furutech project V1
- Thread starter nirodha
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It was a bit of a joke. Give it a listen first, then reflect on importance of neutrality after you have recovered.
So, you've tried one of my UPOCC silver cables? The thought that a silver plated cable is going to come anywhere close is fanciful. I'll know soon enough, and if you want to demo one of my silver cables you're more than welcome to, just msg me.
Fascinating to me that people persist in describing cables as "neutral". It is not possible to know whether or not a cable (or component) is "neutral" since it is not possible to listen to one without the other. The only thing it is possible to listen to is the sound produced by combinations of cables and components. It follows that the challenge is not to find "neutral" cables but to find cables that in combination with your components best serve the music. I have listened to and tried dozens of cables over several decades and except in a handfull of (very high end) all tube systems have never heard silver conductor cables that didn't sound a little tipped up, etched, and/or threadbare.
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Dave, I really accept your expert opinion on cable lore but this time I hope to hear from you after you have heard the V1. If your opinion stays the same, I do really accept this. Subjectivity is the reason why this forum exists. I have probably only heard 5% of all cables out there. I try to avoid to mix too much. In my case, my set is simple: an integrated amp (Humboldt), a CD player (Nagra cdp) and kef 207/2 loudspeakers. My cables can be divided into two categories: “juice” and signals. The power section is all Furutech NCF: NCF wall socket, pure power 6 NCF distributor, Nanoflux NCF power cables. Signal cables are the fantastic Elrod Diamonds. I am a BIG David Elrod fan because of his products ánd the fact that he is one of the most decent, kind persons in the industry. The gamble on buying a V1 unheard (based on the soundrebels review) turned out to be a game changer. The improvement was a shock: never before was I able to hear that deep into the soundstage (layer upon layer was uncovered), to hear the “truth in every expression of sound”. I am going to trade in the remaining NCF Nanoflux soon. And then…. I will be done for years to come (said the junky, but this time more confidently than ever
). Dave, take care and thank you for your kind offer!
Dave, I really accept your expert opinion on cable lore but this time I hope to hear from you after you have heard the V1. If your opinion stays the same, I do really accept this. Subjectivity is the reason why this forum exists. I have probably only heard 5% of all cables out there. I try to avoid to mix too much. In my case, my set is simple: an integrated amp (Humboldt), a CD player (Nagra cdp) and kef 207/2 loudspeakers. My cables can be divided into two categories: “juice” and signals. The power section is all Furutech NCF: NCF wall socket, pure power 6 NCF distributor, Nanoflux NCF power cables. Signal cables are the fantastic Elrod Diamonds. I am a BIG David Elrod fan because of his products ánd the fact that he is one of the most decent, kind persons in the industry. The gamble on buying a V1 unheard (based on the soundrebels review) turned out to be a game changer. The improvement was a shock: never before was I able to hear that deep into the soundstage (layer upon layer was uncovered), to hear the “truth in every expression of sound”. I am going to trade in the remaining NCF Nanoflux soon. And then…. I will be done for years to come (said the junky, but this time more confidently than ever
Yeah, I can see that, the previous nanoflux was good, but pretty warm and fairly colored, there is a lot of room for improvement, I think this cable and the DPS-4 result in less than stellar resolution. The silver plating used on the new cable is a major change and will have a big effect on the sound! Also, the plugs are a major part of how a PC sounds, in many cases making more of a difference vs the cable it's self as many power cables are pretty similar in overall design. If Furutech came out with an upgrade you know it's not just a slight revision, the new plugs are going to be a significant improvement over the previous model, which was already head and shoulders above all others imo. I hope they make the plugs available on their own, but it may be a while... they may choose to keep them exclusive to their new cable for a time.
I also think it's great you went all-in on Furutech NCF, the new power distributors are awesome, as are the GTX NCF receptacles, the plugs and outlets use the exact same base material and plating which (to many folks surprise I'm sure) results in a more relaxed sound that's a lot less fatiguing than having an AC power delivery system with a mix of materials. I've had customers replace gold plated receptacles with Furutech rhodium and report back a hardness to the sound was resolved, distortion seems a lot lower, soundstage and timbre improve, etc. Most blame rhodium for the fatiguing sound but it absolutely is not, it's a combination of gold and rhodium that can be problematic and neither one is responsible for it on their own. I think this has caused a lot of confusion and a lot of misinformation on "the sound of rhodium". IME and many of my customers, going "all-in" on Furtutech NCF makes for a massive improvement. One final detail is to put the FI-09 NCF IEC inlet in all your components, easier said than done but if you can it'll match the IEC plug and inlet materials as well.
So it's only been 48 hrs and the V1 is starting to open-up, not sounding as congested & dark as it did right out of the box. But can now hear "into" the soundstage which is very special. To be honest I've never been a fan of Furutech cords (or interconnects for that matter) while good they just didn't bring the music to life like other cables. BUT their ac plugs (FI-50 NCF) and their receptacles (GTX-NCF) are the best I've had and yes I've gone thru most of the brands on the market over the years. Even my new S.I.N. Audio power distributor uses all Furutech GTX-NCF outlets and even a Furutech grounding post. I also prefer the sound of all rhodium connections, detailed without being harsh. Do the new updated plugs make a difference on the Project V1? Hard to say but my guess is they may be one of the biggest differences in this cord. Still this cord is a lot of $$$$$ but I'll reserve judgement until after 200-250 hrs more of break-in.
(Furutech dealer disclaimer)
(Furutech dealer disclaimer)
Interesting that within the context of a very positive review, the Audio Bacon reviewer preferred the sound of your copper ribbon speaker cables over the silver ribbon version:
ZenWave Audio's SCR-14 Speaker Cables - A Giant Killer? - Audio Bacon
It’s difficult to surprise an experienced audiophile. We’ve gone to all the trades shows, purchased and borrowed lots of gear, and visited all our local dealers. We’ve essentially heard all the possible sonic varieties and tradeoffs. But every so often…a product comes along that challenges your...
audiobacon.net
"In short, if you prioritize neutrality, speed, and resolution – you’ll love this cable....Please take a look at my review of the PSR-14 for an idea of what I mean. As with the SSR-14, I feel the tonality wasn’t as natural for vocal recordings. Never fear, that’s where the SCR-14 comes in".
"As far as the variants, some may prefer the SSR-14 for its neutrality, soundstage, transient clarity, and the utmost amount of transparency. But for my tastes, the SCR-14 is more captivating, pure, and has more “intent.”
Similar comments in the review of the UPOCC silver power cable:
27 Best Audiophile Power Cables - Page 21 of 29 - Audio Bacon
ZenWave PSR-14 Contents 1. Intro2. Neotech NEP-3200 (DIY)3. Acrolink 7N-P4030II (DIY)4. NRG Custom Cables The 5 Power Cord5. Vovox Textura6. Morrow Audio MAP3 Power Cord7. Atlas Cables Eos 4dd Power Cord8. Furutech & ZenWave DPS-49. Requisite Audio PC610. Verastarr Grand Illusion 3 Power cord11...
audiobacon.net
"I would consider it a neutral cable, but it has a character that relates more to what I hear in the real world. The only thing that breaks that illusion is the cooler tone".
The ZenWave PSR-14 excels in everything technical....Although not warmblooded enough for my tastes, it’s one of the most impressive cables I’ve come across.
The Audio Bacon assessments are consistent with what I've heard from most silver conductor cables. For me such characteristically silver sounding cables are unlistenable.
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Also interesting to read Srajen Ebaen's comments on a Furutech DPS-4.1 PC that some posters have described as "warm":
6moons.com
"....Resolution. Audible space. Dynamics. Those were the three leafed clover aspects in the Furutech's lapel. Unexpectedly, much of these cord swaps played out on the archetypal copper/silver axis....The Japanese cord was more energetic, focused and glossy, like typical silver even though it was pure copper....."
I'll be interested to read his full review of the Project V1 PC which is coming.
DPS-4.1 alpha-OCC-DUCC power cord
"....Resolution. Audible space. Dynamics. Those were the three leafed clover aspects in the Furutech's lapel. Unexpectedly, much of these cord swaps played out on the archetypal copper/silver axis....The Japanese cord was more energetic, focused and glossy, like typical silver even though it was pure copper....."
I'll be interested to read his full review of the Project V1 PC which is coming.
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The 4.1 sounds like a broken power cord compared to the V1. And yes, I have heard them both.Also interesting to read Srajen Ebaen's comments on a Furutech DPS-4.1 PC that some posters have described as "warm":
DPS-4.1 alpha-OCC-DUCC power cord
"....Resolution. Audible space. Dynamics. Those were the three leafed clover aspects in the Furutech's lapel. Unexpectedly, much of these cord swaps played out on the archetypal copper/silver axis....The Japanese cord was more energetic, focused and glossy, like typical silver even though it was pure copper....."
I'll be interested to read his full review of the Project V1 PC which is coming.
I don't doubt it, and as for 6 Moons, maybe people don't know the manufacturer pays for reviews so I'd consider them more advertorials than actual reviews and take it for what it is.
The thought the DPS-4 is "like typical silver" is laughable imo, both the claim and the statement "typical silver" is ridiculous. There is no "typical silver", silver varies a lot in purity and manufacturing process and this results in large subjective differences in sound.
In this day and age are we going to stand for such silver bigotry? Srajan is obvious a materialist and these kinds of old fashioned stereotypes should not be tolerated!
All I can say is that the 4.1 certainly did NOT sound “warm”. It added an unwelcome edge to the the sound. But to be fair, I do not know if it was fully broken in. As a music lover, I do not really care about the silver, copper, gold discussion. About reviews, I agree with Dave: they are often “coloured” themselves . I am only interested in reviews by a reviewer whose findings correlate with my ears and emotions.
. I am only interested in reviews by a reviewer whose findings correlate with my ears and emotions.
I'm going to chime in with my personal opinion regarding cables. I am not playing on the same level as many on this site, but my system is decent and transparent enough that a power cable change for example is obvious. I believe a system is about synergy and balance. I don't believe in the full loom idea too. Play and choose, if you feel you need more bass, add a bassier cable. If you feel the sound is slightly veiled and dark, try a more resolving cable. To think that there is a perfect cable for all equipment on all systems is wrong imo, and on top of that, incredibly boring.
FYI, I am using Dave's DSR XLR interconnect (the silver ribbon one) and I had some a/b demos from more well-known brands (Tellurium Q, Chord, Wireworld and one more can't remember). Some had more 'bloom' and darkness, you might prefer that. Or shall I say, your system might benefit from that if your equipment is going in a more resolving direction than you might want. For my ears and in my current system, this was the cable I chose because it was the one that I felt delivered the best experience for me. From the ones I tried though, this was the one that felt like the 'veil' had been lifted the most. It brought me closer into the music. My T+A integrated is slightly on the warmer side, as well as my Holo May dac. My speakers are the Focal Sopra and I don't get any high-frequency problems with Dave's silver cable and beryllium tweeter. Do I feel this is the perfect cable? No, because I don't believe there is an ultimate 'be all end all' cable. Listen to your system after taking a break from listening for a few days, and you will know if you want a 'fuller' or more 'resolving' sounding cable. Chef in the kitchen, as they say.
FYI, I am using Dave's DSR XLR interconnect (the silver ribbon one) and I had some a/b demos from more well-known brands (Tellurium Q, Chord, Wireworld and one more can't remember). Some had more 'bloom' and darkness, you might prefer that. Or shall I say, your system might benefit from that if your equipment is going in a more resolving direction than you might want. For my ears and in my current system, this was the cable I chose because it was the one that I felt delivered the best experience for me. From the ones I tried though, this was the one that felt like the 'veil' had been lifted the most. It brought me closer into the music. My T+A integrated is slightly on the warmer side, as well as my Holo May dac. My speakers are the Focal Sopra and I don't get any high-frequency problems with Dave's silver cable and beryllium tweeter. Do I feel this is the perfect cable? No, because I don't believe there is an ultimate 'be all end all' cable. Listen to your system after taking a break from listening for a few days, and you will know if you want a 'fuller' or more 'resolving' sounding cable. Chef in the kitchen, as they say.
Really? I wasn't surprised by Srajen's comments since UPOCC copper has the reputation of being more resolving and neutral than other copper formulations. As I recall you pointed this out yourself in earlier posts.I don't doubt it, and as for 6 Moons, maybe people don't know the manufacturer pays for reviews so I'd consider them more advertorials than actual reviews and take it for what it is.
The thought the DPS-4 is "like typical silver" is laughable imo, both the claim and the statement "typical silver" is ridiculous. There is no "typical silver", silver varies a lot in purity and manufacturing process and this results in large subjective differences in sound.
In this day and age are we going to stand for such silver bigotry? Srajan is obvious a materialist and these kinds of old fashioned stereotypes should not be tolerated!
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Interesting that within the context of a very positive review, the Audio Bacon reviewer preferred the sound of your copper ribbon speaker cables over the silver ribbon version:
ZenWave Audio's SCR-14 Speaker Cables - A Giant Killer? - Audio Bacon
It’s difficult to surprise an experienced audiophile. We’ve gone to all the trades shows, purchased and borrowed lots of gear, and visited all our local dealers. We’ve essentially heard all the possible sonic varieties and tradeoffs. But every so often…a product comes along that challenges your...
"In short, if you prioritize neutrality, speed, and resolution – you’ll love this cable....Please take a look at my review of the PSR-14 for an idea of what I mean. As with the SSR-14, I feel the tonality wasn’t as natural for vocal recordings. Never fear, that’s where the SCR-14 comes in".
"As far as the variants, some may prefer the SSR-14 for its neutrality, soundstage, transient clarity, and the utmost amount of transparency. But for my tastes, the SCR-14 is more captivating, pure, and has more “intent.”
Similar comments in the review of the UPOCC silver power cable:
27 Best Audiophile Power Cables - Page 21 of 29 - Audio Bacon
ZenWave PSR-14 Contents 1. Intro2. Neotech NEP-3200 (DIY)3. Acrolink 7N-P4030II (DIY)4. NRG Custom Cables The 5 Power Cord5. Vovox Textura6. Morrow Audio MAP3 Power Cord7. Atlas Cables Eos 4dd Power Cord8. Furutech & ZenWave DPS-49. Requisite Audio PC610. Verastarr Grand Illusion 3 Power cord11...
"I would consider it a neutral cable, but it has a character that relates more to what I hear in the real world. The only thing that breaks that illusion is the cooler tone".
The ZenWave PSR-14 excels in everything technical....Although not warmblooded enough for my tastes, it’s one of the most impressive cables I’ve come across.
The Audio Bacon assessments are consistent with what I've heard from most silver conductor cables. For me such characteristically silver sounding cables are unlistenable.
There's no substitute for personal preference. As someone who critically listened to both SCR and SSR in the same system, I'd point out the key words above. "Cooler" but not "cool". I'd characterize differently, though. The SCR is excessively warm. More so than cables one would typically associate with warmth such as Audience, Kubala Sosna, Cardas. So absolutely, if that's your particular brand of vodka, then the SSR isn't for you. And I'd agree that the SSR doesn't color vocals as the reviewer seems to desire. I however felt the SSR excelled with vocals, perhaps as a function of its greater transparency which allowed my gear to shine. If you need a warm cable to make vocals sound appealing, then I'd say your gear is deficient. But that's just me. And FYI, I am using neither the SSR nor the SCR in my systems at this juncture. Just relaying my experience with them. The SSR was superior. And it wasn't even close.
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When did the 4.1 create the unwanted edge to the sound? Only when it is plugged into non-rhodium connectors? Or also in rhodium sockets?All I can say is that the 4.1 certainly did NOT sound “warm”. It added an unwelcome edge to the the sound. But to be fair, I do not know if it was fully broken in. As a music lover, I do not really care about the silver, copper, gold discussion. About reviews, I agree with Dave: they are often “coloured” themselves
I agree. I recently had a customer that thought my SCR and PCR copper ribbon cables were not warm enough, while he may be more sensitive than average he has an excellent system and after trying the Furutech cables had me build him cables out of the Furutech DPS and DSS power and speaker cable, which I and my customer think are a good bit warmer vs my ribbon cables.
Also, Cardas Clear and Clear Beyond are indeed less warm vs my copper ribbon, but other Cardas is much warmer.
So there IS a LOT of room for personal preference in terms of perceived tonality, this is why I offer 3 top-end ICs, a pure silver DSR, silver/gold D4 and a D5 with even more gold. I also offer two UPOCC copper PCs, the PCR copper ribbon and the PL copper litz. PCR is the warmer option, PL is the neutral option. IME it's impossible to offer a single cable that will satisfy everyone in terms of tone/warmth, so I try to offer choices.
Anyways, sorry for the off topic here, I actually asked to have the original OT posts removed because they are so unrelated but they were not, so let's respect the topic and talk about the new Furutech V1. It has a lot of interesting features and I can't wait to hear it!
Hi, it was some time ago so I don’t remember. It were non-NCF connectors that is all I know. Sorry.
DPS 4.1 with NCF Rhodium Connectors Into NCF Rhodium Outlets: I have 2 for my Pandora Preamp, 1 for my Emm Labs DV2, and I will use 1 with my Taiko Extreme when it arrives. For my Mephisto same configuration but S55N wire. I can think of several attributes but Unwelcome Edge is not one of them. Nor have I ever heard that description from others with this cable. I would say more like silky smooth, fineness, and refined... John
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