Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[Kozak170]

Hi @Germanboxers , I hope you have been doing great. Any update on your system?

I'm sure that he's in audio nirvana with G3 and it's hard for him to leave that heaven and come here to answer us, while in that heaven, Thomas Mayer is the god of his trios or iTron is still not clear.

 

[caesar]

I'm sure that he's in audio nirvana with G3 and it's hard for him to leave that heaven and come here to answer us, while in that heaven, Thomas Mayer is the god of his trios or iTron is still not clear.

I certainly hope so! I would have expected him to be gushing about his experiences. Certainly wishing him the very best

 

[caesar]

Gents, I was hanging out at my friend's house, and looks the Analytical Sound has published Jacob Heilbrunn's review now. Anyone read it? Also, apparently there is also a second review from Dick Seydor Olsher, who used Berning OTL? SET? tubed gear. Please share any new insights, as we were hanging out and didn't get a chance to read it. Anyways, I hope it's not another 10 years for them to review another horn, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[bonzo75]

Gents, I was hanging out at my friend's house, and looks the Analytical Sound has published Jacob Heilbrunn's review now. Anyone read it? Also, apparently there is also a second review from Dick Seydor Olsher, who used Berning OTL? SET? tubed gear. Please share any new insights, as we were hanging out and didn't get a chance to read it. Anyways, I hope it's not another 10 years for them to review another horn, but I'm not holding my breath.

i guess after so much reading on WBF they decided they had to praise a horn to show some balance.

 

[sbnx]

I can summarize:

1. Trios rendered former experience with the "horn sound" of shrill treble and discontinuity between drivers moot
2. Didn't care for the iTron although noted likely the fastest amp he has heard
3. With his conventional amplification the trios posess the most liquidity, especially in the treble, that he has heard
4. The transient precision is "jaw dropping"
5. microdetail but not for its own sake but to communicate musical intent
6. Tonality never in question
7. lack of distortion was evident on every album
8. Spacehorns are awesome but a challenge to integrate

Paul Seydor
1. Find prior horn sound neither neutral nor natural but all that changed when heard the Trios
2. Widest dyanmic range ever heard
3. Clarity is state of the art
4. Extraordinary detail without sounding analytical
5. Soundstage and imaging state of the art
6. Bass -- power, punch, reach, slam is best ever heard in a home stereo

Please purchase the TAS article to get the full detail. Or you could simply read through this thread.

 

[caesar]

i guess after so much reading on WBF they decided they had to praise a horn to show some balance.

Hahaha. I think they need to hire you and other WBF horn aficionados to broaden their perspective on horns and SETs. Not too long ago, the Analytical Sound published a dealer directory. Non-surprisingly, it was 70 percent wilson/ d'agostino / dcs/ Sinus Fiber/ audio research guys. 20 percent magico, and 10 percent everything else.

Tastes change upon exposure. Thank you for what you do

 

[caesar]

I can summarize:

1. Trios rendered former experience with the "horn sound" of shrill treble and discontinuity between drivers moot
2. Didn't care for the iTron although noted likely the fastest amp he has heard
3. With his conventional amplification the trios posess the most liquidity, especially in the treble, that he has heard
4. The transient precision is "jaw dropping"
5. microdetail but not for its own sake but to communicate musical intent
6. Tonality never in question
7. lack of distortion was evident on every album
8. Spacehorns are awesome but a challenge to integrate

Paul Seydor
1. Find prior horn sound neither neutral nor natural but all that changed when heard the Trios
2. Widest dyanmic range ever heard
3. Clarity is state of the art
4. Extraordinary detail without sounding analytical
5. Soundstage and imaging state of the art
6. Bass -- power, punch, reach, slam is best ever heard in a home stereo

Please purchase the TAS article to get the full detail. Or you could simply read through this thread.

Thank you! You are a real mensch - a rarity in this hobby

 

[Ron Resnick]

Gents, I was hanging out at my friend's house, and looks the Analytical Sound has published Jacob Heilbrunn's review now. Anyone read it?

Yes

Also, apparently there is also a second review from Dick Seydor Olsher, who used Berning OTL? SET? tubed gear. Please share any new insights, as we were hanging out and didn't get a chance to read it. Anyways, I hope it's not another 10 years for them to review another horn, but I'm not holding my breath.

Paul Seydor

On Saturday I heard the system Paul Seydor reviewed.

Two big caveats:

1) the system does not portray the sense of depth that I am used to from dipole planars.

2) the owner did not play any tracks that I am familiar with.

With these two caveats, at least for jazz music and for classical music, I think this is the single best system I've ever heard in my entire life.

I have heard AG speakers 10 or 15 times. It is the first time ever I have heard an AG speaker with zero (0) brightness.

It is the most natural-sounding horn speaker I've ever heard, and it may be the most natural-sounding speaker of any kind I've ever heard.

The transient response and jump factor and lifelike realism with no hint of brightness or edginess or aggressiveness was revelatory.

I don't understand how this system vanquishes brightness in AG speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

1. Trios rendered former experience with the "horn sound" of shrill treble and discontinuity between drivers moot

Paul Seydor
1. Find prior horn sound neither neutral nor natural but all that changed when heard the Trios

This is slang for I did not investigate horns much but am ashamed to admit that so making up an excuse that people who have not investigated horns will relate to.

What next, digital people who convert to analogue saying before I found this TT cartridge, and phono, vinyl always sounded colored and inaccurate

 

[sbnx]

It is interesting that everyone's comment on hearing the trios is "Zero brightness". Clearly everyone (myself included) was expecting to hear some degree of brightness, stidency or brashess when they first go to demo them.

There is a saying....To whom much is given; much is required. The AG Trio is definitely like a formula 1 race car. It is definitely a high performance machine. To extract the most from a formula 1 car there is a lot of tuning and great driver skill required. Same for the Trios. It is easy to make the trios sound bad and wrong. It is also easy to make them sound bright. Simply put the tweeter in the wrong place. I think a lot of the inherent brightness in the older model was caused by the drivers not being time aligned. They have address this issue in the G3 by the sliding tweeter mechanism allowing time alignment regardless of toe-in. I have the tweeter pointed right at my ear and there is zero brightness. In fact, the sound is lush, rich, smooth, liquid and any other adjective like that. They are a joy to listen to and I can listen for hours without fatigue.

In my experience, every ounce of work a peron puts into the trio system will be rewarded with sonic inprovement. The Trios will also tell you 100% truth about what you put in front of them. Make a poor choice on cables and you can find the sound colored and bad. At 109 dB efficient they will also show the owner all of the noise in their system. Any work to remove noise if greatly rewarded with more and more transparency.

Clearly Jacob figured all of this out and sought some help in getting the spacehorns fully integrated. He seems to be really enjoying the Trios. I wonder if he will start a whole review series on SET's as he has the tools in place to report on what that SET is doing. Should be interesting.

I also think it is interesting that he had Paul write his thoughts and published them as part of the review. Audiophiles are a skeptical bunch (me included) and it is easy for us to conclude that here is just another reviewer gushing about the latest high end speaker. Paul adds a second opinion that Jacob is not just writing that stuff becuase he was paid to do so.

 

[caesar]

It is interesting that everyone's comment on hearing the trios is "Zero brightness". Clearly everyone (myself included) was expecting to hear some degree of brightness, stidency or brashess when they first go to demo them.

There is a saying....To whom much is given; much is required. The AG Trio is definitely like a formula 1 race car. It is definitely a high performance machine. To extract the most from a formula 1 car there is a lot of tuning and great driver skill required. Same for the Trios. It is easy to make the trios sound bad and wrong. It is also easy to make them sound bright. Simply put the tweeter in the wrong place. I think a lot of the inherent brightness in the older model was caused by the drivers not being time aligned. They have address this issue in the G3 by the sliding tweeter mechanism allowing time alignment regardless of toe-in. I have the tweeter pointed right at my ear and there is zero brightness. In fact, the sound is lush, rich, smooth, liquid and any other adjective like that. They are a joy to listen to and I can listen for hours without fatigue.

In my experience, every ounce of work a peron puts into the trio system will be rewarded with sonic inprovement. The Trios will also tell you 100% truth about what you put in front of them. Make a poor choice on cables and you can find the sound colored and bad. At 109 dB efficient they will also show the owner all of the noise in their system. Any work to remove noise if greatly rewarded with more and more transparency.

Clearly Jacob figured all of this out and sought some help in getting the spacehorns fully integrated. He seems to be really enjoying the Trios. I wonder if he will start a whole review series on SET's as he has the tools in place to report on what that SET is doing. Should be interesting.

I also think it is interesting that he had Paul write his thoughts and published them as part of the review. Audiophiles are a skeptical bunch (me included) and it is easy for us to conclude that here is just another reviewer gushing about the latest high end speaker. Paul adds a second opinion that Jacob is not just writing that stuff becuase he was paid to do so.

Most excellent. Do you know who did Jacob's setup? Did the Avantgarde people do it?

And also, do you have any desire to play around with other SS amps?

And Yes, got to give them credit, per your last paragraph, as their audience is so programmed to hearing box speakers with big SS is "THE BEST!".

 

[Carlos269]

It is interesting that everyone's comment on hearing the trios is "Zero brightness". Clearly everyone (myself included) was expecting to hear some degree of brightness, stidency or brashess when they first go to demo them.

There is a saying....To whom much is given; much is required. The AG Trio is definitely like a formula 1 race car. It is definitely a high performance machine. To extract the most from a formula 1 car there is a lot of tuning and great driver skill required. Same for the Trios. It is easy to make the trios sound bad and wrong. It is also easy to make them sound bright. Simply put the tweeter in the wrong place. I think a lot of the inherent brightness in the older model was caused by the drivers not being time aligned. They have address this issue in the G3 by the sliding tweeter mechanism allowing time alignment regardless of toe-in. I have the tweeter pointed right at my ear and there is zero brightness. In fact, the sound is lush, rich, smooth, liquid and any other adjective like that. They are a joy to listen to and I can listen for hours without fatigue.

In my experience, every ounce of work a peron puts into the trio system will be rewarded with sonic inprovement. The Trios will also tell you 100% truth about what you put in front of them. Make a poor choice on cables and you can find the sound colored and bad. At 109 dB efficient they will also show the owner all of the noise in their system. Any work to remove noise if greatly rewarded with more and more transparency.

Clearly Jacob figured all of this out and sought some help in getting the spacehorns fully integrated. He seems to be really enjoying the Trios. I wonder if he will start a whole review series on SET's as he has the tools in place to report on what that SET is doing. Should be interesting.

I also think it is interesting that he had Paul write his thoughts and published them as part of the review. Audiophiles are a skeptical bunch (me included) and it is easy for us to conclude that here is just another reviewer gushing about the latest high end speaker. Paul adds a second opinion that Jacob is not just writing that stuff becuase he was paid to do so.

Interesting labeling a 4-way horn system a Formula 1 race car. My OKTAN6 reference horn system is a 6-way, soon to transition to a 7-way so I guess that it’s all a matter of perspective. Regarding the lack of brightness, I agree that there is a lack of brightness but to me, and compared to my OKTAN6 reference horn system, the tweeter’s high frequency performance sounds a bit neutered:

Symphony No. 5

Danse Macabre

Der Hölle Rache

 

[sbnx]

Most excellent. Do you know who did Jacob's setup? Did the Avantgarde people do it?

And also, do you have any desire to play around with other SS amps?

And Yes, got to give them credit, per your last paragraph, as their audience is so programmed to hearing box speakers with big SS is "THE BEST!".

He mentions Armin Krauss of Avantgarde regarding the initial spacehorn setup. So I am reasonably sure that like most high end reviews that the speakers were initially setup by Avantgarde. However, I am also reasonably sure that Jacob likely tweaked them to his liking.

Then he mentions J.R. Boisclair of WAM engineering came to dial in the woofers once they were broken in.

I personally love class A sound. I used to own the Mephisto as well as several other class A amps. (Owned a lot of other class A, class AB and class D as well). At the moment I have no desire to play with other solid state amps. I currently do not have a passive crossover in the Trios so it is not even an option. Although the passive crossover is not hugely expensive at around $5k. I personally love the iTron. Just look at it from a performance perspective -- 3X3W pure class A with zero negative feedback. Then add to that it is a current amplifier which is extremely unique. If they were to put this amp into some sexy box and double the price I think a lot of people would look at it differently. (Just my opinion)

I have mentioned this before regarding the iTron. It is super fast and paired with the Trios means that even more attention to setup is needed to realize what the iTron is doing.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

why no R2R or TT?

 

[bonzo75]

@exupgh12 your frind with the Trio G2 and Clearaudio Statement - do you experience brightness in the system?

 

[Al M.]

Interesting labeling a 4-way horn system a Formula 1 race car. My OKTAN6 reference horn system is a 6-way, soon to transition to a 7-way so I guess that it’s all a matter of perspective. Regarding the lack of brightness, I agree that there is a lack of brightness but to me, and compared to my OKTAN6 reference horn system, the tweeter’s high frequency performance sounds a bit neutered:

Symphony No. 5

Danse Macabre

Der Hölle Rache

Compared to your OKTAN6 reference horn system, the tweeter’s high frequency performance sounds a bit neutered?

Seriously?

All the three videos sound unbearably bright. Unlistenable. Totally unrealistic. Real live classical music doesn't sound like that.


(Yes, I listened to them on YouTube, not on the embed on this page. The soprano on the last one also does not just sound bright, but in addition has a glassy hardness to her voice.)

 

[Carlos269]

Compared to your OKTAN6 reference horn system, the tweeter’s high frequency performance sounds a bit neutered?

Seriously?

All the three videos sound unbearably bright. Unlistenable. Totally unrealistic. Real live classical music doesn't sound like that.


(Yes, I listened to them on YouTube, not on the embed on this page. The soprano on the last one also does not just sound bright, but in addition has a glassy hardness to her voice.)

Why don’t you post a video of your system and let us hear what classical music sounds like? You have no skin in the game, time to eat some spinish!

 

[Al M.]

Why don’t you post a video of your system and let us hear what classical music sounds like? You have no skin in the game, time to eat some spinish!

Why don't you go to a live classical concert, Carlos, to hear what that really sounds like?

(And yes, we have debated the video thing ad nauseam, nothing to add.)

 

[sbnx]

why no R2R or TT?

I assume this is a question for me. If not, please forgive.

I do have R2R. It is in the DAC.

Seriously though. A TT is a whole different journey. I think I am too neurotic to have a TT. I would be constantly stressing if the VTA was good enough or having to adjust for each album thickness etc. Of course, I could be like Mike and have a different TT for each album thickness and that would solve the whole problem. Maybe someday. I have thought about the Grand Prix Audio Monaco. But then there is which tone arm/cartridge etc. Then there is the phono stage. For now, I am quite happy with my digital which is not even at the top of what it could be.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

such an excellent system would deserve/benefit from a good analogue source