Active Anti-vibration Platforms : Accurion i4 and Herzan TS150

[CKKeung]

How do you get the best out of both?. I would want better treble and better bass

Hi XV-1 : While the two of them have slightly diff personalities, both give big improvement to the sonic performance.

Of course, if you read carefully the Discovery 4 again, ...

 

[spiritofmusic]

CK, what happens when you can't site the active shelf on a concrete floor? When Keith of Purite had the Accurion rep over, he suggested the same thing i.e. need to site on solid concrete, and intimated that the support would just not be optimal otherwise. Since we can't all do this ultimate solution, esp in old houses w/flexing wooden floors, the Spiers would be an able practical alternative, less fussy about what it's sited on.
I don't want this to sound like I'm hijacking this active isolation thread, just placing alternatives/options in context. What was interesting is that the Spiers had comparable test results to the active Accurion when tested, and better in some axes.
The findings on power cords and power supplies improving the electrical supply to active isolation is an area OCD of a new order. $15k for the shelf, $5k for power cord/psu to max out. Maybe throw in Troy or Entreq grounding. And multiply by 7-8 for a standard set of components, and we're talking a cool $200k for this round of upgrades. I make no judgement, just smiling wryly.

 

[CKKeung]

CK, what happens when you can't site the active shelf on a concrete floor? When Keith of Purite had the Accurion rep over, he suggested the same thing i.e. need to site on solid concrete, and intimated that the support would just not be optimal otherwise. Since we can't all do this ultimate solution, esp in old houses w/flexing wooden floors, the Spiers would be an able practical alternative, less fussy about what it's sited on.
I don't want this to sound like I'm hijacking this active isolation thread, just placing alternatives/options in context. What was interesting is that the Spiers had comparable test results to the active Accurion when tested, and better in some axes.
The findings on power cords and power supplies improving the electrical supply to active isolation is an area OCD of a new order. $15k for the shelf, $5k for power cord/psu to max out. Maybe throw in Troy or Entreq grounding. And multiply by 7-8 for a standard set of components, and we're talking a cool $200k for this round of upgrades. I make no judgement, just smiling wryly.

Hi Spiritofmusic,

The info/comments are from Spiers and its UK dealers, may there be any conflict of interest?

Anyway, my friends and I don't have interest to use passive platforms or air-bladder mechanism again.
We listened to Accurion & Herzan and are very happy about their performance. And we are able to get very good group-buy prices too.

Thank you for your comments.

 

[DEV]

Great info, thx for sharing - it really is mind boggling when adding any type of isolation device under components period along with the effects they provide.

Which product did you in the end go with and under what component or components.

Was there any mutual consensus of a specific component must have underneath experience.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm traveling so just saw these last pages....and only have my phone. Regarding Spirit's comments on the Spiers compared to the Accurion, the particular Accurion unit that Keith used was lower spec for the weight of the gear being treated, so of marginal benefit as a data point.

On another subject; I had occasion to discuss power supply changes with Herzan here in the states; it is easily doable to switch the TS units from the switching power supply to a linear one; but it would involve an outboard module. Their techs could do it.

Mike

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Stacking units can work. The TS-150 has a 330 pound capacity and auto leveling. I have both my dart pre and playback designs stacked on the TS-150 and both are optimized. I use the Wave Kinetics A10 U8 footers below the dart pre and between both units, as well as a Symposium Svelt Shelf between the units to eliminate digital noise from the dart phono.

You can combine active and passive if the active has a solid base to sit on.

So with care you don't need a separate active device for each box and need crazy dollars for this stuff. It helps to have a great pre which includes two phono sections and a great one box digital solution. These things help to allow budget for optimization

It does not hurt that the dart pre is Swiss built like a proverbial tank (all milled from solid billet-no rolled sheet metal) and easily supports the weight of the the also robust playback designs. Less stout gear might not take to stacking in the same happy way.

And lastly i would add that the importance of what active devices bring to the table is much related to system energy levels. With 1400 pounds of speaker towers per side and -3db at 7 hz I need active decoupling to avoid feedback.

 

[Kingsrule]

I'm thinking one of these active isolation tables under my music server might be significant. Isolating the spinning hard drives should be like isolating a TT.

Anyone try this??
Any thoughts?

 

[DonH50]

Is the server in the room with the speakers?

Unlike your TT the hard drives have error correction and data recovery. Nor is the data extracted in the same manner. I would not expect any difference. Which will not stop folk from doing it and claiming vast improvements, natch...

Using enterprise level drives (preferably SAS, assuming you have a SAS controller) would likely improve the drive's reliability and hopefully data integrity more than putting the server on an isolation table.

 

[Kingsrule]

Basement

I thought about the error correction,etc. If the isolation is preventing the error correction and data recovery (which in its self doesn't bode well IMO) from having to come into play it might sound better, no?

 

[CKKeung]

Stacking units can work. The TS-150 has a 330 pound capacity and auto leveling. I have both my dart pre and playback designs stacked on the TS-150 and both are optimized. I use the Wave Kinetics A10 U8 footers below the dart pre and between both units, as well as a Symposium Svelt Shelf between the units to eliminate digital noise from the dart phono.
You can combine active and passive if the active has a solid base to sit on.
So with care you don't need a separate active device for each box and need crazy dollars for this stuff. It helps to have a great pre which includes two phono sections and a great one box digital solution. These things help to allow budget for optimization
It does not hurt that the dart pre is Swiss built like a proverbial tank (all milled from solid billet-no rolled sheet metal) and easily supports the weight of the the also robust playback designs. Less stout gear might not take to stacking in the same happy way.
And lastly i would add that the importance of what active devices bring to the table is much related to system energy levels. With 1400 pounds of speaker towers per side and -3db at 7 hz I need active decoupling to avoid feedback.

Hi Mike,

You are very experienced in using Herzan ar!

We tested stacking the Soulution 750 phonoamp and its PSU together on one Accurion i4 : very good result.

However, stacking the Soulution 746 sacd player and its PSU together gives less improvement. Maybe the vibration from the transport mechanism motor + from the PSU transformers is too much and too complex for the i4 to neutralize.

Stacking does give very good result in certain cases but field-tests is a must.

 

[CKKeung]

I'm traveling so just saw these last pages....and only have my phone. Regarding Spirit's comments on the Spiers compared to the Accurion, the particular Accurion unit that Keith used was lower spec for the weight of the gear being treated, so of marginal benefit as a data point.
On another subject; I had occasion to discuss power supply changes with Herzan here in the states; it is easily doable to switch the TS units from the switching power supply to a linear one; but it would involve an outboard module. Their techs could do it.
Mike

Hi Mike,

This is a very interesting news.

Please tell us more about this linear psu option.

May you tell me the name and contact of the Herzan guy in USA who suggested this option to you?

Many many thanks!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

When I return home I will PM you this information. I do not have this info with me.

Mike

 

[CKKeung]

When I return home I will PM you this information. I do not have this info with me.
Mike

Mike : Thanks you again!

 

[Elberoth]

Accurion i4 employs a small external switching-mode power-supply.
When we replaced it with a Kenneth Lau linear power-supply, it transformed into another beast, bettering Herzan in all aspects!
.

What is the voltage / amperage needed ?

 

[CKKeung]

What is the voltage / amperage needed ?

Accurion i4 needs a 24V-5A dc input.

Here is the photo taken during our gathering :



Kenneth entertains overseas orders. His linear PSUs are best-buys in the market. He can be contacted at diyla1209@yahoo.com.hk

 

[PeterA]

So you recommend an after market power supply, with what look like Stillpoints underneath, plus a special power cord for the active isolation unit which already costs around $10K, perhaps doubling the final price to $20K. All this to properly isolate one component? And this should be on a concrete floor for optimal results. That seems like quite a commitment, but that the results are excellent and worth the diminishing returns in an already outstanding system.

I'm wondering when someone will incorporate active isolation into a top turntable design and create a super-table like the old Rockport and Walker that used integrated air suspension. I can see the next TechDAS Zero with active isolation on its own integrated stand instead of the air bladder feet above an HRS platform an a rack.

 

[CKKeung]

So you recommend an after market power supply, with what look like Stillpoints underneath, plus a special power cord for the active isolation unit which already costs around $10K, perhaps doubling the final price to $20K. All this to properly isolate one component? And this should be on a concrete floor for optimal results. That seems like quite a commitment, but that the results are excellent and worth the diminishing returns in an already outstanding system.
I'm wondering when someone will incorporate active isolation into a top turntable design and create a super-table like the old Rockport and Walker that used integrated air suspension. I can see the next TechDAS Zero with active isolation on its own integrated stand instead of the air bladder feet above an HRS platform an a rack.

Don't worry, this tailor-made linear PSU for Accurion i4 costs around US$1k only. That's why I say that Kenneth Lau's psu are best-buys in the market.

Adding audiophile-grade powercords does help but it's not a must and depends on one's budget.
Of course, all audiophiles are itchy. We always strike for excellence, don't we?

Your suggestion of incorporating active anti-vibration isolation into top turntables is a great idea!
Very eager to see such design in the coming Air Force Zero.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm thinking one of these active isolation tables under my music server might be significant. Isolating the spinning hard drives should be like isolating a TT.

Anyone try this??
Any thoughts?

my server is upstairs above my dedicated room. it's a 2 box server; one for the CPU and one box for the 4 drives (15 terabytes currently with 6-7 filled).

I have both boxes sitting on Wave Kinetics A10 U8 footers and it is an audible improvement. and it's not even in the same room. would active decoupling sound better? I don't really want to know.

 

[adyc]

CK,

Do you have any experience with Stillpoints? If you have, how do you compare Stillpoints with these active isolation platforms?

 

[CKKeung]

CK,
Do you have any experience with Stillpoints? If you have, how do you compare Stillpoints with these active isolation platforms?

I don't have any Stillpoints but my ARC Ref10 owner friend (photos in #4) is a footer guru. He has bought and tried most models of Finite Elemente, Nordost Sort Fut & Sort Fut and Stillpoints in his system. He likes the Stillpoints most.
He claims that the effect of Accurion & Herzan is way way way superior to any of these footers. These active platforms are beyond compare.