Are Ethernet tweaks/gimmicks turning out to be like the same in the USB space?

[rsrzr]

For a decade or more, I went thru applying many of the USB tweaks to try to better the sound quality of USB to the dac, some made a little difference, others nothing, and others made things worse. After playing wasting my money on USB stuff and dac, decided to get a great sounding dac with ethernet and i2s inputs and the sq hasn't been better.

Now, for a couple of years, I have started seeing some of the same tweaks/gimmicks being applied to ethernet. I have tried a couple with little improvement, have been to audio shows with thousands of $$$ worth of ethernet tweaks/gimmicks, and the systems sounded worse. Bottomline, instead of applying many upstream hacks on ethernet, run fiber as the last leg to the dac and no noise/junk will get thru to the dac.

Or better yet, if you have a system that uses i2s to the dac, use fiber to the device that then connects to the dac.

 

[audiobomber]

Bottomline, instead of applying many upstream hacks on ethernet, run fiber as the last leg to the dac and no noise/junk will get thru to the dac.

Or better yet, if you have a system that uses i2s to the dac, use fiber to the device that then connects to the dac.

Personal experiences with my system and a friend's show that changes in cables, switches and power supplies, upstream from the fiber conversion, have a profound effect on sound quality. I use USB with my exaSound streamer and DAC, he uses I2S with his K50 and Tambaqui.

PS The only way I2S betters I2S is if the USB implementation is not well implemented.

15 USB/SPDIF converters shootout

audiophilestyle.com

(Barrows is a Sonore designer.)

 

[rsrzr]

usb is the worst connection and your better dacs don’t even include usb. I2s is the best but most dacs don’t include it and nobody wants to pay more for it

 

[Republicoftexas69]

usb is the worst connection and your better dacs don’t even include usb. I2s is the best but most dacs don’t include it and nobody wants to pay more for it

Actually not true.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

usb is the worst connection and your better dacs don’t even include usb. I2s is the best but most dacs don’t include it and nobody wants to pay more for it

Matter of fact most do have usb, Mola Mola, Total, LessLoss, CAD, Lampi just to name a few. The key is that these DAC builders/designers engineer their DAC to isolate the USB from the DAC chips.

 

[flkin]

For a decade or more, I went thru applying many of the USB tweaks to try to better the sound quality of USB to the dac, some made a little difference, others nothing, and others made things worse. After playing wasting my money on USB stuff and dac, decided to get a great sounding dac with ethernet and i2s inputs and the sq hasn't been better.

Now, for a couple of years, I have started seeing some of the same tweaks/gimmicks being applied to ethernet. I have tried a couple with little improvement, have been to audio shows with thousands of $$$ worth of ethernet tweaks/gimmicks, and the systems sounded worse. Bottomline, instead of applying many upstream hacks on ethernet, run fiber as the last leg to the dac and no noise/junk will get thru to the dac.

Or better yet, if you have a system that uses i2s to the dac, use fiber to the device that then connects to the dac.

Unlike USB or i2S connections which is necessary, there is a limit on how good an ethernet connection is. The best ethernet is no connection at all.

If your system is able to download a music track fully into the streamer buffer then switch off the ethernet connection (physically disconnect the ethernet cable and optionally power down the LAN in the OS to reduce software overheads) you will hear the very best ethernet connection - no connection.

This is obviously not a way to use a digital streamer as one needs playback controls for normal function and a working LAN is needed. But it's a good short experiment to see how your existing ethernet setup sounds compared to the "perfect" ethernet and whether you need to continue working on improving it.

 

[analogsa]

If your system is able to download a music track fully into the streamer buffer then switch off the ethernet connection (physically disconnect the ethernet cable and optionally power down the LAN in the OS to reduce software overheads) you will hear the very best ethernet connection - no connection.

I've written exactly the same a long time ago but nobody paid any attention. Not as sexy as adding a couple more switches and replacing an upstream ethernet cable. At the same time extremely sobering.

One small thing: when disconnecting the ethernet in the experiment make sure both ends have been disconnected, makes a substantial difference.

 

[flkin]

There is a counter argument that unless there is a way to shut down the streamer's internal LAN system after removing the ethernet cable, the streamer will continue to try and reestablish the LAN connection. This effort might be audible.

Until recently I wasn't aware there was a way to do this. But the Pink Faun streamer Euphony/Stylus software offers this. There's a software function to buffer entire tracks/albums/playlists then power down the LAN system for a period of time during which the OS presumably stops looking for a LAN reconnection. It's found in the Expert Settings.

Stylus offers this as a way to enjoy the music without the distraction of the digital interface. Just relax and listen rather than fiddle with the control panel. The side effect is the LAN is disconnected providing potentially better sound quality too.

Using this function along side physical removal of the ethernet cable allows one to hear the 'perfect' ethernet sound.

 

[wackerd]

usb is the worst connection and your better dacs don’t even include usb. I2s is the best but most dacs don’t include it and nobody wants to pay more for it

USB is worse from typical computers I agree. But from audio improved USB like from Antipodes Oladra to IDEON Absolute E Dac is much better than AES or RCA with a Stealth USB T cable or a Shunyata Omega USB cable. That is my experience I made.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

USB is worse from typical computers I agree. But from audio improved USB like from Antipodes Oladra to IDEON Absolute E Dac is much better than AES or RCA with a Stealth USB T cable or a Shunyata Omega USB cable. That is my experience I made.

Op statement or post was false and inaccurate. Personally I have never used a computer to treat music.

 

[Rumpole]

I've written exactly the same a long time ago but nobody paid any attention. Not as sexy as adding a couple more switches and replacing an upstream ethernet cable. At the same time extremely sobering.

One small thing: when disconnecting the ethernet in the experiment make sure both ends have been disconnected, makes a substantial difference.

How can a ethernet cable that is disconnected from the DAC, but still connected to the router, affect the signal? Do you need to disconnect all of the ethernet cables that are connected to your router?

 

[J007B]

How can a ethernet cable that is disconnected from the DAC, but still connected to the router, affect the signal? Do you need to disconnect all of the ethernet cables that are connected to your router?

A while back I ran an experiment, my dac has the ability to download music directly from a USB thumb drive. I disconnected the Ethernet cable at the dac but left it connected to the router. WiFi was off on the dac as it was unnecessary In my setup. Playback directly from the thumb drive was definitely better than played from my NAS. All things became equal when I created a fiber optic firewall between my router and Lumin U1. As for my experience with USB cables vs SPDIF, AES, etc., USB was always the winner in my system.

 

[analogsa]

How can a ethernet cable that is disconnected from the DAC, but still connected to the router, affect the signal? Do you need to disconnect all of the ethernet cables that are connected to your router?

Not sure what you mean by "signal". It affects the sound of a system when disconnected from the dac by emitting RF noise in the room. Very much like it affects the sound when connected to the dac.

 

[ssfas]

usb is the worst connection and your better dacs don’t even include usb. I2s is the best but most dacs don’t include it and nobody wants to pay more for it

Funny, that. My streamer is optimised for usb out (Innuos Pulsar), having no other output, and my DAC (Holo May) is optimised for usb input, although it does have I2S input. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

[sparkie]

For a decade or more, I went thru applying many of the USB tweaks to try to better the sound quality of USB to the dac, some made a little difference, others nothing, and others made things worse. After playing wasting my money on USB stuff and dac, decided to get a great sounding dac with ethernet and i2s inputs and the sq hasn't been better.

Now, for a couple of years, I have started seeing some of the same tweaks/gimmicks being applied to ethernet. I have tried a couple with little improvement, have been to audio shows with thousands of $$$ worth of ethernet tweaks/gimmicks, and the systems sounded worse. Bottomline, instead of applying many upstream hacks on ethernet, run fiber as the last leg to the dac and no noise/junk will get thru to the dac.

Or better yet, if you have a system that uses i2s to the dac, use fiber to the device that then connects to the dac.

USB sometimes is only as good as the computer its connected to. But I don't use USB on my Jriver PC server. I use Dante Virtual sound card and run that into my Burl DAC via a simple gbit switch separate from my network. Since I got into installing Dante audio in commercial settings, I find it more of a sophisticated system to deploy at the house and I could expand it to be more sophisticated with a crestron server that I could control lighting as well.

But I guess it all depends on what your goals are in that.

 

[BigAlMc]

"Or better yet, if you have a system that uses i2s to the dac, use fiber to the device that then connects to the dac."


This might be your experience and if so then I'm glad it's working well for you. But as a general statement it's way off base for a few reasons.

Firstly you need a device that converts fibre to I2S so you're simply comparing the quality of that device to an equivalent Ethernet or USB device.

Secondly you need a DAC with a good I2S implementation. Some DAC designers will put effort into this but many focus more on USB or LAN meaning you'll get better results focusing on the quality of input signal on those protocols.

For example many people have had excellent results with the Innuos Phoenix USB or PhoenixNet LAN reclockers, the Network Accoustics Muon passive LAN system or the Etherregen or similar audiophile switches. I've tried all 4 and each is excellent.

I had great results with I2S when I owned a Directstream DAC. This was using a Singxer SU2 converter but I quickly moved on in search of 'more' and ended up achieving far better sound quality with USB.

Improving the quality of your source streamer or server was far more influential than any cleaner-upper devices in my experience but the aforementioned devices still added something.

Many paths to audio nirvana in this hobby but I personally find a lot of the LAN devices offer clear instantly noticeable improvements.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[flkin]

Not sure what you mean by "signal". It affects the sound of a system when disconnected from the dac by emitting RF noise in the room. Very much like it affects the sound when connected to the dac.

ok, I guess you're saying disconnect the wire from the ethernet DAC side rather than the router side.

 

[analogsa]

ok, I guess you're saying disconnect the wire from the ethernet DAC side rather than the router side.

IME disconnecting from both sides is much preferable than just from the dac.

I guess between the two possible hypotheses explaining the audibility of LAN infrastructure i have chosen the one dealing with noise, both transmitted and radiated.

 

[AkiKhan]

With the modest setup I have - relatively speaking - and listening to the different connections, I found USB to sound a bit more resolved than SPDIF. Again not huge difference, but I did tend to prefer the USB. Think it may be dependent on the implementation of the output/input.