Butcher block or Granite!

[Johnny Vinyl]

The Frugal Audiophile can't really entertain the idea of turntable platforms from Symposium and other manufacturers, so he has to improvise to keep costs real. Two ways of doing that are butcher block and/or granite platforms. I've personally had wonderful success with my own concoction of an IKEA butcher block and furniture felt-pad covered hockey pucks placed underneath. By no means perfect, but it did help quite a bit in tightening things up.

I'm now wanting to experiment with a Granite platform to see if there is a difference for the better. I've heard both positive and negative opinions on both...hence the threadstart.

I would love to hear your opinion about these two materials and why you think one is better than the other.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I used to use a 2 1/2" thick maple butcher block under my VPI Scout. Later, I purchased Adona racks and the VPI sounded better to me sitting on their granite/sorbothane/MDF shelf. I was quite surprised how much the sound tightened up and got more dynamic.

 

[steve williams]

I used to use a 2 1/2" thick maple butcher block under my VPI Scout. Later, I purchased Adona racks and the VPI sounded better to me sitting on their granite/sorbothane/MDF shelf. I was quite surprised how much the sound tightened up and got more dynamic.

I use 2" maple butcher block under my amps

 

[garylkoh]

Use both. Granite below pucks below butcher block. However, it will depend on the turntable's suspension design or lack thereof.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I used to use a 2 1/2" thick maple butcher block under my VPI Scout. Later, I purchased Adona racks and the VPI sounded better to me sitting on their granite/sorbothane/MDF shelf. I was quite surprised how much the sound tightened up and got more dynamic.

My rack is frugal nice...solid steel and MDF by Sonoma and surprisingly solid. Your experience would indicate that granite is an improvement. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Use both. Granite below pucks below butcher block. However, it will depend on the turntable's suspension design or lack thereof.

Place the granite directly on the MDF shelf and build from there?

Suspension is: Suspension system : Adjustable, semi-floating chassis on dual rod system made of fibreglass and Sorbothane decoupling

 

[DonH50]

The heavier weight of granite (assuming that is the case) will lower the resonance frequency of your system. Whether that helps, hurts, or does not matter only you can say. I prefer the look of wood but granite is less likely to dry out, change color, and crack over time and a thinner sheet provides more mass.

I have found decoupling to be tricky. Sometimes adding another suspension system in series with the turntable leads to multiple resonances and strange things happen. Other times it's the only way to get clear sound out the speakers.

 

[steve williams]

The heavier weight of granite (assuming that is the case) will lower the resonance frequency of your system. Whether that helps, hurts, or does not matter only you can say. I prefer the look of wood but granite is less likely to dry out, change color, and crack over time and a thinner sheet provides more mass.

I have found decoupling to be tricky. Sometimes adding another suspension system in series with the turntable leads to multiple resonances and strange things happen. Other times it's the only way to get clear sound out the speakers.

I have had my butcher block for well over 10 years. I had them seal it with linseed oil and have never had a problem with drying out, changing color etc

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

The heavier weight of granite (assuming that is the case) will lower the resonance frequency of your system. Whether that helps, hurts, or does not matter only you can say. I prefer the look of wood but granite is less likely to dry out, change color, and crack over time and a thinner sheet provides more mass.

I have found decoupling to be tricky. Sometimes adding another suspension system in series with the turntable leads to multiple resonances and strange things happen. Other times it's the only way to get clear sound out the speakers.

It sounds like all of this is very much a personal sonic choice. I can live with that.

I have had my butcher block for well over 10 years. I had them seal it with linseed oil and have never had a problem with drying out, changing color etc

I've not had any problems either...

 

[microstrip]

Some type of granite blocks can be highly resonant - specially if less than 3" thick. You can always try damping them with elastomer foils or similar materials.
Long ago a good friend of mine built a 2" thick all stone audio support - it looked nice but unfortunately his system, including a turntable, sounded really poor on it. Fortunately he did not ask my help to remove it - it was really heavy!

Yes, sometimes tweaks can make a system sound miserable.

 

[garylkoh]

I have found decoupling to be tricky. Sometimes adding another suspension system in series with the turntable leads to multiple resonances and strange things happen. Other times it's the only way to get clear sound out the speakers.

+1

Turntables are the trickiest.

 

[LL21]

The Frugal Audiophile can't really entertain the idea of turntable platforms from Symposium and other manufacturers, so he has to improvise to keep costs real. Two ways of doing that are butcher block and/or granite platforms. I've personally had wonderful success with my own concoction of an IKEA butcher block and furniture felt-pad covered hockey pucks placed underneath. By no means perfect, but it did help quite a bit in tightening things up.

I'm now wanting to experiment with a Granite platform to see if there is a difference for the better. I've heard both positive and negative opinions on both...hence the threadstart.

I would love to hear your opinion about these two materials and why you think one is better than the other.

I could just be the last guy on the planet you want to listen to, given that i dont do vinyl. But i have played a fair amount with my own system and isolation. In your case, you seem to have worked on a good isolation platform underneath the TT...do you think a record weight/clamp (as in 'isolation sandwich') might be a worthwhile pursuit?

I know there are some seriously high end guys who love their Dalby Weight...i mean absolutely love it. So the question is would you/can you try something there? In my own system, mass damping/sandwiching components has sometimes had at least as great a positive effect as isolation underneath.

 

[Enoch Root]

In every application that I've tried marble/granite, it seemed to reflect energy back into the system. Maple and bamboo have had the opposite effect; draining spurious energy from the system. I still use bamboo.

 

[DonH50]

On wood drying out -- where I live humidity is often 10% or less, exacerbating the problem. We use a whole-house humidifier but it is only somewhat effective. The problem in my birthplace (Missouri) was the opposite, always had to dry things out...

 

[Mosin]

+1

Turntables are the trickiest.

Exactly.

I try to design around the interface of external materials because I never know what the end user might try. Still, influences to some degree are unavoidable at times. I do know, like another poster mentioned, that granite reflects back. I avoid it. Bamboo works pretty well, so does maple. A little maple goes a long way, however. It can suck the life out of things when overdone. I have found that slate works well, as does Delrin and Paperstone. Concrete and various kinds of plywood can also be nice, depending on the content. My opinion is that the whole affair can get pretty subjective.

 

[MrAcoustat]

DIY racks for Krell KRS-100 mono blocks.

 

[BobM]

I agree, granite can be resonant, though beautiful if polished up nicely.

I prefer an Ikea butcher block with a bunch of squash balls underneath (aka a poor man's Ginko Cloud). I like the squash balls instead of racquetballs because they do flatten down a bit after a while and prevent the shelf from rolling around.

Another material to consider is Corian, especially if you can find a kitchen installer with a bunch of leftover sink cutouts.

 

[DonH50]

I am struggling to see how granite resonance properties enter into turntable isolation when used as a platform for a TT with its own suspension system but as previously noted my ears of clay probably cannot hear such things anymore. I tend to focus on optimizing the overall suspension/isolation properties of the system, which is pretty complicated when multiple spring systems are involved.

Corian is a great idea IMO.

MrAcoustat, the Krell amp stands look awesome, but this thread is about turntable isolation...

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Andre - Nice looking amp stands for sure!

BobM - Think I'll look for some Bamboo block and maybe try the squash balls as opposed to my hockey pucks method. Will check into Corian as well.

DonH - Thanks for the confirmation on Corian

I kinda like the idea that Gary mentioned about using 2 materials. Granite placed directly on the top shelf (it would provide additional weight for better stability) and then either Butcher Block or Corian on some type of footer.

 

[microstrip]

I am struggling to see how granite resonance properties enter into turntable isolation when used as a platform for a TT with its own suspension system but as previously noted my ears of clay probably cannot hear such things anymore. I tend to focus on optimizing the overall suspension/isolation properties of the system, which is pretty complicated when multiple spring systems are involved.

Corian is a great idea IMO.

MrAcoustat, the Krell amp stands look awesome, but this thread is about turntable isolation...

Don,

As far as I understand it, the thread is not about turntable isolation, it is a general thread about platforms that make a turntable sound good.

Now for the technicalities. Although we have many types of granite, in general if you tap a thin granite slab it will resonate - unfortunately my current kitchen countertops and tables are all made from Corian, much more silent that the previous one in black granite - otherwise I could measure it. Considering that most turntable suspensions are not optimized in these frequencies, and also that many turntables must drain energy in the platform, we can easily understand why the platform material can be of great importance. Do you remember the Goldmund mechanical diode theories? Sometimes a material must dissipate the incoming energy in itself, not reflect it back in a delayed way.

I had a great experience with Corian some decades ago. Although I already referred it in WBF I will repeat it. In the 90's a good friend became Dynaudio distributor and imported the great Dynaudio kits. Using the factory supplied plans we built two Gemmini's (D'Appolito" configuration) pairs of monitors - one in MDF, the other in Corian, as the Wilson speakers of that period. They sounded very different. But there was no clear preference between listeners - although the Corian one was cleaner and had better definition, some found the Corian excessively alive and bright sounding. Only many years later, reading about the Wilson Audio Watt speakers I learned that Dave Wilson damped the Corian of his speakers with lead to eliminate the Corian intrinsic resonances. Do you remember the Dukas The sorcerer's apprentice? Fortunately in audio, apprentices are not spanked ...