Feeler: Interest in a universal IR to RS232 control box for CBIII

[SysOp]

I have pretty much all URC remotes for my various home systems, a lot of MX850s and several KP900s. There is no good, reasonably priced option from URC or even RTI for building an IR code sheet that will activate all of the Theta CBIII's RS232 discreet functions. I looked at the Xantech converter box but it is (a) pricey and (2) requires purchase of other components to make it work and (c) the programming of it looks tedious and rediculous.

What I am working on is a "universal" ready-to-go black box that will accept standard IR codes from any universal remote and map them to the Theta RS232 commands automatically. The box is about the size of a pack of cigs, has an IR jack input and IR receiver window for accepting IR commands from any control system, and an RS232 output for direct connect to the Theta.

The IR code sets and RS232 mappings are stored inside the black box. It is all plug and play. No time consuming configurations needed, all the "hard work" is done.

I built a code sheet which has 80 different IR commands which map to 80 of the most common discreet functions on the Theta CBIII, full list below. The IR command set is also contained separately in a CCF file (Pronto CCF format, universal use with URC, RTI, etc) for easy import into your preferred remote control editing program. All you do is plug in the black box to power, rs232 to CBI - CBII - CBIII, stick an IR emitter on the blakc box or use the IR input jack, and then import the IR codes from the CCF file to your remote as appropriate.

In short, by using the black box for IR to RS232 translation, you can access all of the Theta CBIII's discreet functions easily via any universal remote that can be edited.

I'm trying to gauge level of interest from anyone else who might want one. cost of this project is about $300 and can be readily duplicated. Further commands can be added at any time, and I see no reason why this could not also work for any other RS232 device such as a GEN VIII, amps, etc.

Mapped command list:

CBIII Command/Function

1. Select Input 1
2. Select Input 2
3. Select Input 3
4. Select Input 4
5. Select Input 5
6. Select Input 6
7. Select Input 7
8. Select Input 8
9. Select Input 9
10. Select Input 10
11. Select Input 11
12. Select Input 12
13. User Mute / Toggle Mute
14. Source Change / Set Source 1
15. Source Change / Set Source 2
16. Source Change / Set Source 3
17. Source Change / Set Source 4
18. Source Change / Set Source 5
19. Source Change / Set Source 6
20. Power Main / Into Standby
21. Power Main / Out of Standby
22. Power Remote / Cycle
23. Mode Select - Matrix
24. Mode Select - Special Matrix
25. Mode Select - Stereo
26. Mode Select - Analog Direct
27. Mode Select - Analog Matrix
28. Mode Select - Mono
29. Mode Select - Circle II Cinema
30. Mode Select - Circle II Music
31. Mode Select - Circle II Mono Matrix
32. Mode Select - Pro Logic Iix Movie
33. Mode Select - Pro Logic Iix Music
34. Mode Select - Pro Logic Iix Mono Mx
35. Mode Select - DTS NEO:6 Cinema
36. Mode Select - DTS NEO:6 Music
37. Master Volume, Increment
38. Master Volume, Decrement
39. Button 1
40. Button 2
41. Button 3
42. Button 4
43. Button 5
44. Button 6
45. Button A/D
46. Button Mute
47. Button Mode
48. Button Tape Out
49. Button Setup
50. Button Balance
51. Button Display IR
52. Button Power Main
53. Button Up
54. Button Down
55. Button Power Remote
56. Button Status
57. Button Left
58. Button Right
59. Button Phase
60. Button Select Up
61. Button Select Down
62. Button Power Standby
63. Button Power Activate
64. Level Center Up
65. Level Center Down
66. Level Rear Left Up
67. Level Rear Left Down
68. Level Rear Right Up
69. Level Rear Right Down
70. Level Side Left Up
71. Level Side Left Down
72. Level Side Right Up
73. Level Side Right Down
74. Level Sub 1 Up
75. Level Sub 1 Down
76. Level Sub 2 Up
77. Level Sub 2 Down
78. Level Sub 3 Up
79. Level Sub 3 Down
80. Level Sub 4 Up
81. Level Sub 4 Down

 

[amirm]

Interesting project. How do you map the button to the RS-232 code? Surely it is not a random assignment of 81 keys to 81 codes. Wouldn't that necessitate having a configuration software? And how about sequencing such as power on and select input X?

 

[SysOp]

Amir- The "mapping" is all done inside the black box. It contains the set of 81 RS232 codes as in my list above. Each of the Rs232 codes is mapped to a corresponding IR code. so when the box receives say, the IR code for #1 Select Input 1, it outputs the mapped RS232 code for Input 1 to the Theta.

As far as macros and sequentials, you do that through your remote control editing software (Pronto, RTI, URC etc). You would simply create a new device in your remote software editor called "CBIII" (or whatever), then open the CCF file that contains the IR commands for the black box (all of these editors will open CCF files), and then copy / paste each IR code to your newly created device. You use your remote control editor software to create the macros / sequentials based on the individual IR codes learned from the CCF file.

It is the exact same process as setting up any device within a software-editable remote control product. Example, if you create a device in your remote called "DirecTV" and import / learn the codes for it's commands, each of those learned commands is an individual IR code. You use your remote software to then create the macros / sequentials. Same process / concept.

Make sense? (I'm explaining this with an assumption that you've worked with editable remote control products that come with a PC editor type of software- If not then this can indeed seem a bit confusing)

 

[amirm]

My company does full audio/video integration business so I am quite familiar with the whole idea . I thought at first you said no software configuration was necessary in any way and I couldn't then figure out how you configured the mapping. So translating what you are saying, your black box has a set of IR codecs and those are always mapped one to one to a corresponding RS-232 code. Then I do my button assignments in the remote config software. yes?

If so, seems like we are into creating a custom device driver. Why not do that for the CBIII instead and be done with it? Yes you would have to use a base station but then you could go RF which is more convenient than IR.

 

[SysOp]

Amir- got it, I guess it is hard to be crystal clear in a forum post.. ;p

Yes you nailed it- Basically, I mean there is 'no configuration' as in you do not have to muck around with finding a device that will do the IR<>RS232 translating, spend hours mapping IR codes to RS232 codes, and then hope it will integrate with your existing control system. The box acts as a 'universal translator' for any standard IR-based system. The "device driver" in this case is the CCF file with the specific IR codes, which can be imported to any remote control editor program.

To talk to the black box, you would use the pre-programmed IR codes in the CCF file and just import the codes you need into your remote editor software. The box handles the corresponding RS232 mappings according to which IR command you chose. I also created a "user guide" like my list above that tells you what each number 0-80 of IR code does in relation to each RS232 command.

Using my MX850 editor software, I handle it like this:

1. open my config file for the living room in MX editor
2. add a new device called "CBIII"
3. add 4 pages to the device (six programmable lcd buttons per page for this particualr remote, plus all of the hard keys)
4. open the Univeral Browser in the MX Editor. With the Universal Editor, open the CCF file. It displays all 81 IR codes in order, they are all numbered 0-80. I have a reference doc that has each command listed and the matching numbers 0-80.
5. drag / drop the specific codes I need into the CBIII device hard buttons and LCD buttons. Name each one as appropriate. Example, if I wanted to use the PLIIx Movie discreet code I would drag / drop command number 15 to one of the LCD buttons in the MX850 editor, and name the button "PL2MOV".
6. set up any macros as needed, assign the IR output of the new CBIII device to port 1 of my URC MRF350 base station. Save file.

The MX850 sends its commands via RF to the MRF350 base station, the base station receives RF and sends the commands via IR emitter on port 1 to the black box. The black box accepts the IR command and sends the appropriate mapped RS232 command to the CBIII. Easy-peazy

 

[SysOp]

On the topic of device driver- that is a different ball of wax, and it ends up becoming limited to the device it was created for. If you already have a Crestron or AMX, then you already have native RS232 translation and control built in to the system, as well as a CB device driver provided. This method i'm proposing only applies to those who do not have Crestron or AMX nd existing RS232 controls in place, but rather, URC / RTI / Pronto, or any other software editable IR/RF remote based system, and you would like to be able to use all of the Theta discreet control codes. For these systems, the black box approach will work for all of them universally.

Lets use URC as an example. Their mid range to upper remotes all have IR and RF capability. Plus, they have a good swath of available base stations that accept RF, and route IR. However, they do NOT offer an IR or RF to RS232 solution. They only have an IP to RS232 offering, and frankly, you may not want to re-design your system from the ground up for IP based control just to gain the RS232 functionality on one device. Alternatives? none that are cost effective. Xantech does sell a universal IR to RS232 device, but have you ever tried to program one? holy hell. forget it. Plus, you have to buy the power supply separately, so all in you're pushing $700 just in the hardware and you still need to spend hours programming the codes and testing it. Lame. The average DIY HT enthusiast will not be able to work with this, and the average integrator would never be able to charge enough labor to cover time spent setting it up 50+ CBIII codes.

So my solution proposes to resolve all of these issues for CBI II III IIIHD owners or integrators- a ready to rock IR>RS232 box that can be set up / used very quickly, and blend with any IR/RF control system.

I will be testing my "beta" model over the next week, will post on how it goes.

 

[amirm]

Sounds good Kurt. Look forward to your progress.

 

[SysOp]

Thanks- It's an interesting endeavor borne out of frustration / no suitable alternatives. I was mostly curious if anyone else is in the same boat with their CB controller.

I see your point on the 'device driver' and thinking on this further, that is sort of what this is, but in a universally applicable package. The CCF file and IR codes inside it is the 'device driver', which you import to your remote. The black box is the 'device'. You send the learned IR codes from your remote via RF to your RF/IR base station, the base station sends the IR to the to the black box, and it tells the theta what to do via RS232. Or, if you don't use a RF/IR base station, simply send IR fom the remote to the black box, since the black box also has an IR receive window on it.

 

[SysOp]

Amir- Running through final testing. This turned out to be a lot more complex than originally anticipated. You could say that I've built a "device driver in a box", that accepts universal IR commands to trigger any of the Theta CB functions via RS232. I have the IR commands in RC5 format, each one labeled, in a universal CCF file. Essentially you would use your RTI or URC or Pronto software edtor to open the CCF file, then drag / drop the specific command you want into your remote buttons. Then just plug in the black box to power and RS232 on the Theta, make sure the Theta's baud rate is set to `115200, and then send your IR commands to the black box via emitter bug or jack input. That's it.

Super slick so far- I have this working excellent via IR bug attached to the front of the black box, and also via direct IR jack input on the back (the box has both types of IR inputs available). I am using a URC MX850 to store the IR commands, it transmits via RF to a URC 350RF base station, which sends the IR command to the black box.

The nice thing I noticed about RS232 control is the CB is very fast to respond! Much faster than IR control, for certain.

Once I confirm this works rock solid, I'm going to look into packaging it as a product. I figure it could help out at least a few CB owners and system inegrators. It should work equally as well for the CBII and CBI, at least per control specs, but I cannot confirm. For the CBIIIHD any newly introduced commands can easily be added and field updated, so far I have not seen any new RS232 command docs specific to the HD upgrade on Theta's site.

The box is field upgradable with firmware updates as needed. I figure the "package" will come with the box (about the size of a deck of cards), RS232 cable, power supply, and male/male RS232 gender adapter coupler (the black box and the Theta both have female RS232 ports). I'm using the highest setting available on the box and Theta CB for baud rate - 115200k - so things are nice and responsive.

 

[amirm]

Glad to hear the progress you are making Kurt. Embedded software development can be challenging after one gets spoiled with the rich environment on the PC.

 

[SysOp]

Testing complete

Have run the box through its paces and everything checks out rock solid. This item is a real performer. If any interest I can put one together and ship for $400, lead time is about 1 week.
The parts alone cost over $200. Some of the price covers your shipping. I make a small profit for my time putting everything together into a plug and play package. It may not be dirt cheap, but, it is still less costly than the Xantech IS<>RS232 module which requires programming and building your own IR code set. The hardware is robust and designed for commercial use 24/7/365.

Comes with:

• black box, satin black ABS housing about 4" wide by 3" deep by 1" high
• RS232 cable, 1 meter
• RS232 male<>male gender changer
• power supply for box
• 2 CCF files with 80 commands in each- the IR commands in the CCF file can be used with any universal remote software such as RTI, Pronto, URC, etc that has a software editor cabable of browsing CCF files or copy / pasting direct IR codes. IR codes are in RC5 format. One CCF file has all IR codes in non-repeating format, the other CCF has all codes in repeating IR format. The IR codes are labled in the CCF for easy identification.
• General instructions

Theta CB Settings Requirement:

• Theta CB settings for RS232 should be 115200 baud with Echos set to off.
• IR can be sent to the black box via sticky emitter on the front of box, or via direct IR input jack on rear of box.
• Box can be updated with new RS232 commands as Theta releases them. I would basically email you a file to upload to the black box via RS232 from your PC, and a new CCF that has the corresponding new code. The architecture of the device is very open.
• Box is made by a well established USA company, if any hardware service is required that is not a problem.

Technical specs of black box:

• IR Front Receiver Range Detection from 8+ meters
• IR rear input 1/8 jack accepts standard IR signaling
• Power Supply 7-30VDC (Wall Mount Power Supply Included)
• Case Material ABS Black Plastic
• Infrared Carrier Frequency 38KHz standard
• IR Spectrum Sensitivity 880-1050nm with 940nm peak wavelength
• Infrared Protocol: RC5
• RS232 Connector on Box is DB9 Female, comes with Female to Male DB9 cable with gender changer included
• RoHS Compliant
• Certifications FCC Subpart B of Part 15, ICES-003, EN60601-1-2:2001