There are definite sonic advantages to horns, but also many disadvantages. Has any horn speaker overcome the horny discoloration? Are speakers like Avant garde and Acapela, and any others able to take the best of what the design can do while eliminating the negatives of the design choice?
Has any horn speaker overcome the horny coloration?
- Thread starter caesar
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Hi,
IMO Avantgarde succeeds in having a very neutral sound but lacks the ultimate depth...
I spent the day at JBL Northridge the week before NAMM. We were listening to pretty much everything that Harmon Luxury Audio had...... Everests, Revel Salon II's
The most exciting was the horn speaker that JBL unveiled at NAMM. Stereo image was rock solid anywhere in the room and unwavering ...... spooky!
Cyclotronguy
The most exciting was the horn speaker that JBL unveiled at NAMM. Stereo image was rock solid anywhere in the room and unwavering ...... spooky!
Cyclotronguy
Nope, I still get kinda flushed when I'm randy, and I haven't found speakers have any effect.
Tim
What do you mean by depth? If you are talking about soundstage depth, I agree with you. Horns project their soundstage forward.
Thank you! I don't think they sound all that bad myself
One of Jeffrey Jackson's designs, though I don't remember the horn profile. The other was a Le Cleac'h horn. The latter had ESL57 levels of incredible midrange.
It will depend a lot on amplification and setup. I also shared this idea until I listened to them using the purpose built Avantgarde amplifier and a complementary digital source. The setup was tuned by the designer of the amplifier and it sounded really great, with plenty of depth and a notorious absence of the typical horn coloration. Can you imagine Avantgarde sounding delicate and continuous?
I do imagine
.I have already listened to the AvantGarde amps and preamps and I agree : they are outstanding.
But even with the Trio G2 and the full basshorn set, I feel always a small gap in depth. I don't mean there is no relief, but just not as good as a few other speakers in this price range or even under. In terms of delicacy, naturalness and neutrality, I must admit that they are stunning performers.
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I agree, Avantgardes look anything but subtle - they look as if they will blow your socks off. However - they can be astonishingly delicate. I think it has something to do with their amazing dynamics - they sound very good indeed at low volume. They are however very dependent on amplification. I have heard the same speaker sound muddy to crystal clear in a dealer's showroom.
I've had my AV Duos for well over a decade, I think longer than any other pair of speakers. Along with them over time I acquired 3 AV Solos to act as center and rear speakers for my 5.1 system (along with a Velodyne DD18 for the .1). I bought them because I had a pair of amps that I needed to match and the AV Duos were the best fit (with Trio's too big for a home theatre set up). I had fallen for SET amps in the mid '90's and finally acquired a pair of Cary 2A3 Signatures which put out 4 wonderful watts on a good day - 3.5 wonderful watts on not such a good day. The AV Duo's with their well over 100 db efficiency make a great match for the low powered SET amps. Since then I have felt no need to upgrade to anything else. I am not saying that there are not better speaker/amp combo's - I regularly hear my consultant Tim Marutani's Magico Q3, 5 or 7 speakers (or earlier his big TAD's and not so big TAD's) with Constellation electronics and Winston Ma's fantastic system in Redmond as well as our fearless leader's Wilson/Lamm/JL system when it was in the Bay Area. But when I get home and play my system, I am a happy camper - their systems are great, but I am happy and not envious.
For me, the AV's are not too forward and have a realism that makes me smile. Like much of my equipment I bought all my speakers and the SET amps used.
Larry
Larry
For me, the AV's are not too forward and have a realism that makes me smile. Like much of my equipment I bought all my speakers and the SET amps used.
Larry
Larry
I have heard these and liked them a lot:
http://www.sadurniacoustics.com
they will be at RMAF next month!
private audition for a party of 6 WBF members invitation will follow.
http://www.sadurniacoustics.com
they will be at RMAF next month!
private audition for a party of 6 WBF members invitation will follow.
I claim that my speakers have negligible horn coloration, and wouldn't have too much trouble coming up with quotes (including from avowed horn-haters) which support that claim. I also claim to not be the only one by far - among designers that I'm somewhat familiar with, Earl Geddes and Wayne Parham also have designed horn-type speakers that have negligible horn coloration. I follow in Earl's footsteps in using waveguide-style horns.
In general, a good smooth horn profile combined with a good crossover to an appropriate bass section should result in negligible characteristic horn sound. Different designers have different ideas about what the best horn profile is, of course.
In pursuit of soundstage depth, among other things we want a fairly wide, uniform radiation pattern with minimal diffraction (which can give away the speakers as the sound source).
In my experience a good dipole or bipole system does a better job of conveying a sense of instruments in three-dimensional space than a comparable monopole does, and so my best horn systems are bipolars. I'll be showing a rather innovative evolution of the bipolar theme (invented by James Romeyn) at RMAF in a couple of weeks; my room happens to be right next door to the Volti Audio room, Volti being the high-end horn speaker that Art Dudley liked, linked to by devert above.
On the topic of Avantgarde speakers and their "lack of depth"... be aware that the you really must place these speakers at least as far apart from each other as they are from the listening position.
If your room is not wide enough, don't buy these speakers and expect to get the magic out of them.
I custom built a treated (diffusive) large room and they sound phenomenal. A big advantage to these speakers is that they are not affected much by 1st reflections as other speakers I have used (such as B&W 802 diamond speakers). Nevertheless I have a fully treated room with diffusive surfaces (very incidentally are expensive to make look good).
These speakers when setup properly sound literally like the singer is in the room with you on vocal solos. They are truly exceptional. Having spent about $300k on the room, the effect I have achieved is nothing short of breathtaking.
What others have said about di-pole and bi-pole speakers I think is somewhat true. For a cheaper set of speakers, I would not mind recommending simple Definitive Technology speakers to my non-audiophile friends. They sound cool without a lot of expense. Some of the most expensive speakers in the world are designed with these techniques as well. There are many ways to "skin a cat" as they say... however I think each "audiophile" will eventually need to discover for themselves what sound they like the most. You will not know until you try unfortunately.
I wish someone could run my genetic profile and tell me exactly what I would like... however, it is unlikely to ever be that simple. The journey is at least half the fun for an audiophile anyway.
In a way I am disappointed that my audio journey may be coming closer and closer to and end since I know what type of speakers "do it for me". I almost try and find fault just so that I can find something new.
If the grass is always greener on the other side: something may be wrong with you.
If the grass is never greener on the other side: something may be wrong with you.
If your room is not wide enough, don't buy these speakers and expect to get the magic out of them.
I custom built a treated (diffusive) large room and they sound phenomenal. A big advantage to these speakers is that they are not affected much by 1st reflections as other speakers I have used (such as B&W 802 diamond speakers). Nevertheless I have a fully treated room with diffusive surfaces (very incidentally are expensive to make look good).
These speakers when setup properly sound literally like the singer is in the room with you on vocal solos. They are truly exceptional. Having spent about $300k on the room, the effect I have achieved is nothing short of breathtaking.
What others have said about di-pole and bi-pole speakers I think is somewhat true. For a cheaper set of speakers, I would not mind recommending simple Definitive Technology speakers to my non-audiophile friends. They sound cool without a lot of expense. Some of the most expensive speakers in the world are designed with these techniques as well. There are many ways to "skin a cat" as they say... however I think each "audiophile" will eventually need to discover for themselves what sound they like the most. You will not know until you try unfortunately.
I wish someone could run my genetic profile and tell me exactly what I would like... however, it is unlikely to ever be that simple. The journey is at least half the fun for an audiophile anyway.
In a way I am disappointed that my audio journey may be coming closer and closer to and end since I know what type of speakers "do it for me". I almost try and find fault just so that I can find something new.
If the grass is always greener on the other side: something may be wrong with you.
If the grass is never greener on the other side: something may be wrong with you.
One of my audiophile buddies has Klipshorns deiven with a 3 watt SET amp. They did some things really well (micro and macro dynamics) but always had that in your face shouting sound to them. He upgraded the crossovers and some of that went away.
Then he upgraded the horns and crossover to Volti's (they mod Klipshorns) and these no longer sound like horns. They have a center image and soundstage. They are not in your face. They have all the texture and dynamics of the Klipshorns but do all those other things that you expect from a regular speaker as well.
I've heard the true "from the ground" up Volti's at shows and they have that same character as the Volti-Klipshorn modifications. They continually get best in show or near best in show write ups these last few years. Definitely add them to your list to check out.
Then he upgraded the horns and crossover to Volti's (they mod Klipshorns) and these no longer sound like horns. They have a center image and soundstage. They are not in your face. They have all the texture and dynamics of the Klipshorns but do all those other things that you expect from a regular speaker as well.
I've heard the true "from the ground" up Volti's at shows and they have that same character as the Volti-Klipshorn modifications. They continually get best in show or near best in show write ups these last few years. Definitely add them to your list to check out.
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