Looking for DAC suggestions

[edorr]

I am starting to wonder that if you after the best in both worlds and have a large selection of PCM and DSD, whether 2 dedicated DACs are needed if wanting the best from both formats.
The reason is it seems their architecture-implementation or focus is primarily for one or the other.
To my mind the Meitner upsampling PCM to 5.6MHz is more ideal for DSD, MSB with its architecture is well suited to PCM.
For 1-bit DSD again you have Playback, for PCM some others such as Meridian (not just them) with very well designed architecture/digital filters and even if some are Sigma Delta DACs without relying completely on the OEM solution.

Some that may bridge both well; dCS latest models (but technically not a 1-bit DSD design) amongst other manufacturers.

BTW you happy with the EMM Labs on DSD?
Maybe keep that for DSD and another one for PCM, although pain in back side having 2 DACs
So may need compromise on one format.

Cheers
Orb

Bruce B.'s top dog DSD dac is PBD and for PCM it is MSB. Extra DAC, extra pair of ICs extra PC - not worth it for me, but for folks with serious DSD collection worth considering.

 

[MadFloyd]

I am starting to wonder that if you after the best in both worlds and have a large selection of PCM and DSD, whether 2 dedicated DACs are needed if wanting the best from both formats.
The reason is it seems their architecture-implementation or focus is primarily for one or the other.
To my mind the Meitner upsampling PCM to 5.6MHz is more ideal for DSD, MSB with its architecture is well suited to PCM.
For 1-bit DSD again you have Playback, for PCM some others such as Meridian (not just them) with very well designed architecture/digital filters and even if some are Sigma Delta DACs without relying completely on the OEM solution.

Some that may bridge both well; dCS latest models (but technically not a 1-bit DSD design) amongst other manufacturers.

BTW you happy with the EMM Labs on DSD?
Maybe keep that for DSD and another one for PCM, although pain in back side having 2 DACs
So may need compromise on one format.

Cheers
Orb

Orb, are you saying the EMM Labs does DSD differently from the PBD?

I've found DSD to be a bit sharp sounding - at least that's been my experience on the DAC2X, but I've been listening to DSD for the past 2 hours with the Auralic and enjoying it (again - probably because of the difference in tonal balance more than anything else).

 

[mep]

Orb, are you saying the EMM Labs does DSD differently from the PBD?

I've found DSD to be a bit sharp sounding - at least that's been my experience on the DAC2X, but I've been listening to DSD for the past 2 hours with the Auralic and enjoying it (again - probably because of the difference in tonal balance more than anything else).

Really? Is it being converted to PCM? DSD is not "sharp" sounding in my experience with the Mytek.

 

[wisnon]

I am starting to wonder that if you after the best in both worlds and have a large selection of PCM and DSD, whether 2 dedicated DACs are needed if wanting the best from both formats.
The reason is it seems their architecture-implementation or focus is primarily for one or the other.
To my mind the Meitner upsampling PCM to 5.6MHz is more ideal for DSD, MSB with its architecture is well suited to PCM.
For 1-bit DSD again you have Playback, for PCM some others such as Meridian (not just them) with very well designed architecture/digital filters and even if some are Sigma Delta DACs without relying completely on the OEM solution.

Some that may bridge both well; dCS latest models (but technically not a 1-bit DSD design) amongst other manufacturers.

BTW you happy with the EMM Labs on DSD?
Maybe keep that for DSD and another one for PCM, although pain in back side having 2 DACs
So may need compromise on one format.

Cheers
Orb

Yup, that is what you get when you install the DSD filter box option in a PCM Lampizator. In my case, I have 2 separate Lampi Boxes, each optimized for a separate format.

No lusting after any other brand with this setup.

 

[jap]

Yup, that is what you get when you install the DSD filter box option in a PCM Lampizator. In my case, I have 2 separate Lampi Boxes, each optimized for a separate format.

No lusting after any other brand with this setup.

Sounds like a wonderful product, are there any US Dealers, or is it just Fred and Berto the co-North American Lampizator distributors on Long Island NY?

 

[wisnon]

I think its just them at the moment and they will be at "THE Show" in Vegas this January.

There may be more dealers later on, but I dont know...

Please note I am in Switzerland....not the USA.

 

[Orb]

Orb, are you saying the EMM Labs does DSD differently from the PBD?

I've found DSD to be a bit sharp sounding - at least that's been my experience on the DAC2X, but I've been listening to DSD for the past 2 hours with the Auralic and enjoying it (again - probably because of the difference in tonal balance more than anything else).

In some ways yes, but it is still technically a true DSD DAC.
The PCM is what I have some concerns with the DAC2X.
BTW you will notice that most DSD DACs do have a subtle sound difference, this is to do with both the digital and analogue stages within the DAC; some may be too soft where some PCM DACs can be too sharp - it is more than this just keeping it short.
Mep, DSD is not being converted to PCM in the DAC2X.
However the Mytek is using the proprietary architecture of the ESS Sabre, meaning its DSD (this also applies to the PCM as well) is being converted-upsampled to an internal frame-format designed by ESS Tech and then on to the Hyperstream section.
They may have found the best compromise *shrugs* but I know opinion is very split on that in the pro-audio engineer world.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

Bruce B.'s top dog DSD dac is PBD and for PCM it is MSB. Extra DAC, extra pair of ICs extra PC - not worth it for me, but for folks with serious DSD collection worth considering.

yeah,
still I would like someone with a good selection of PCM and DSD to let us know of their experience (critically at home) with the latest dCS DAC and with Upsampler - in the past I aprpeciate the primary upgrade in sound came with combining the DAC with Clock but I am not so sure with the latest model if looking at both DSD and PCM as the new Upsampler does a lot.
Unfortunately only ever heard dCS at the local dealer.

Cheers
Orb

 

[microstrip]

In some ways yes, but it is still technically a true DSD DAC.
The PCM is what I have some concerns with the DAC2X.
BTW you will notice that most DSD DACs do have a subtle sound difference, this is to do with both the digital and analogue stages within the DAC; some may be too soft where some PCM DACs can be too sharp - it is more than this just keeping it short.
Mep, DSD is not being converted to PCM in the DAC2X.
However the Mytek is using the proprietary architecture of the ESS Sabre, meaning its DSD (this also applies to the PCM as well) is being converted-upsampled to an internal frame-format designed by ESS Tech and then on to the Hyperstream section.
They may have found the best compromise *shrugs* but I know opinion is very split on that in the pro-audio engineer world.
Cheers
Orb

Orb,
Do you know if the ESS Sabre six bit DAC is being operated at a sample rate 5.6448 MHz when receiving 2xDSD in the Benchmark or Mytek?

 

[Orb]

Orb,
Do you know if the ESS Sabre six bit DAC is being operated at a sample rate 5.6448 MHz when receiving 2xDSD in the Benchmark or Mytek?

I need to look carefully, one of the DSD DACs do the SRC-certain processing outside of the ESS Sabre but they all must use the hyperstream (certain other DAC chip manufacturers have a direct bypass), would need to look back through my PC to see if I kept a note somewhere which uses their own SRC-DSP with the ESS Sabre.
I know Digital Audio Denmark (with the studio AX32) redesigned their DAC architecture away from the ESS 9018 due to some performance behaviours (not sure if it pertained to hirez PCM or DSD or both).

That said the ESS 9016 and 9018 are still excellent sounding DAC chips.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

Ok it is the Auralic Vega that do their own upsampling solution before the ESS Sabre DAC, also it cannot be disabled from what I understand.
Cheers
Orb

 

[microstrip]

Ok it is the Auralic Vega that do their own upsampling solution before the ESS Sabre DAC, also it cannot be disabled from what I understand.
Cheers
Orb

The Auralic seems a very interesting DAC. It would be very nice to read a direct comparison about the sound quality of the Auralic Vega versus the Playback Design in both PCM and DSD. As most of us have listened to the PD and several WBF members own it, we can use it as reference.

 

[MadFloyd]

The Auralic seems a very interesting DAC. It would be very nice to read a direct comparison about the sound quality of the Auralic Vega versus the Playback Design in both PCM and DSD. As most of us have listened to the PD and several WBF members own it, we can use it as reference.

I am going to try and do that (I'm working on getting a PBD right now).

 

[Orb]

The Auralic seems a very interesting DAC. It would be very nice to read a direct comparison about the sound quality of the Auralic Vega versus the Playback Design in both PCM and DSD. As most of us have listened to the PD and several WBF members own it, we can use it as reference.

Yeah, although it still has to go through the ESS Sabre architecture and Hyperstream.
So I am a bit leery of that tbh, compared to say the Playback or even Meitner that seem technically a better fit with DSD.
And also the way DAD moved away from ESS Sabre with the AX32 DA design.
DAD do a lot in the pro studio world at a high level.

Cheers
Orb

 

[MadFloyd]

yeah, although it still has to go through the ess sabre architecture and hyperstream.
So i am a bit leery of that tbh, compared to say the playback or even meitner that seem technically a better fit with dsd.
And also the way dad moved away from ess sabre with the ax32 da design.
Dad do a lot in the pro studio world at a high level.

Cheers
orb

dad?

 

[Orb]

dad?

See post 30
Seems some of the hirez PCM studios go with Digital Audio Denmark latest offerings with some form of AX24 (new solution coming to market is AX32), while many of those focusing more on DSD go with Merging Horus.
Just way it seems to me *shrugs* but I appreciate it is not really that clear cut.

Cheers
Orb

 

[Bruce B]

I used the DAD AX24 for about 5yr. I did all the FIM mastering with it. Great sounding converter!

 

[garylkoh]

MadFloyd - I don't see any "hard sounding" components in your system either. One suggestion - instead of using the USB input of the DAC2X, see if you can borrow a Berkeley Audio USB converter. The digital outputs are transformer-coupled and would galvanically isolate the computer server from the rest of your system.

 

[MadFloyd]

MadFloyd - I don't see any "hard sounding" components in your system either. One suggestion - instead of using the USB input of the DAC2X, see if you can borrow a Berkeley Audio USB converter. The digital outputs are transformer-coupled and would galvanically isolate the computer server from the rest of your system.

Thanks for your thoughts, Gary. I still own partially own a Berkeley Audio USB so maybe I'll try that.

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for your thoughts, Gary. I still own partially own a Berkeley Audio USB so maybe I'll try that.

You are a privileged audiophile - I would love to test the Berkeley Audio USB, but it is forbidden in EC because it uses lead in the solder ...