Magico Ultimate 3

[cjfrbw]

Well, whatever taste I have, good or bad, I like the looks of the big Magico as far as horns go. I also really like the looks of the Eurythmie, but have never heard either.

The looks of some horns is polarizing of audiophile opinion, to say the least.

 

[Orb]

I think it would have been a shame to hook them to electronics in a crappy hotel room.... nothing to gain.
Alon should rather organize an event in his music room for us to listen to them, that would be cool!

Definitely agree, and I think most of us would be surprised just how stunning a great full bandwidth horn sounds with the right gear and I seriously would love to hear that Magico speaker as it may be the ideal full bandwidth horn (and IMO looks great for a horn).
Amazingly though they had this Western Electric 1928 horn setup at the Munich show a few years ago I think it was made to sound quite impessive (although such design does have its limitations) and still not as large as the Magico but closer to the Eurythmie:

Germans love their horn speakers and good for them as they make some of the shows rather interesting.

Cheers
Orb

 

[nirodha]

I would love to hear them. the driver compliment with the bass horn on top reminds me of one of my all-time faves the jadis eurythmie. Alon's version looks to have an active bass driver for the low bass and separate sub (?).

True, I would also like to hear them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I ALWAYS want to hear products in which respected designers put their utmost. Be it Magico, Kef, Wilson etc.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Simply astonishing.

 

[microstrip]

As commenting on them will be 99.9% of the times simple audio gossip, my contribution can only be asking what would be the systems, including source and cables, that people will use with these speakers.

 

[Orb]

As commenting on them will be 99.9% of the times simple audio gossip, my contribution can only be asking what would be the systems, including source and cables, that people will use with these speakers.

Some special low-ish powered SET tube setup I guess as they usually sound stunning on large horn speakers, assuming the Magico has high sensitivity.
A lot use Shindo going by some forums, or possibly certain models of Nagra, amongst a few others like Leben (maybe?).
Cheers
Orb

 

[earlinarizona]

I have hear but unsure about this one. Which sub is in the Ultimate? Is it the Fathom 15" from JL?
The other question is about the main large horn. Is there a cone driver for this section or is it using a compression driver?

 

[rockitman]

Love the looks, construction and I would imagine the sound. $600k is a mile too far. I would rather have Gary's Carbon Fibre Genesis 1's and 200k to spend elsewhere. I think the line source G's would provide a more realistic presentation given appropriate room size. Magico is making a 400% markup...just my opinion of course.

 

[microstrip]

Some special low-ish powered SET tube setup I guess as they usually sound stunning on large horn speakers, assuming the Magico has high sensitivity.
A lot use Shindo going by some forums, or possibly certain models of Nagra, amongst a few others like Leben (maybe?).
Cheers
Orb

Orb,
I immediately thought about them - a lot of them - but then remembered the 110dB/W sensitivity. SET tubes will probably be too noisy for the Ultimate 3.

 

[stereo]

I have hear but unsure about this one. Which sub is in the Ultimate? Is it the Fathom 15" from JL?
The other question is about the main large horn. Is there a cone driver for this section or is it using a compression driver?

Custom design for the 15" in the bass. Nothing to do with the Fathom or with the drivers used in Ultimate 2 and Ultimate 1.
The mid bass horn is using a custom made 12". Also completely new design

 

[stereo]

Orb,
I immediately thought about them - a lot of them - but then remembered the 110dB/W sensitivity. SET tubes will probably be too noisy for the Ultimate 3.

You are right. Sensitivity is between 110 and 116dB depending on which way you are talking about (configuration requires 4 stereo power amps)
I don't plan to use tubes, and I know 2 other buyers who don't plan to use tubes. Too noisy, no willingness to change compression driver membrane every time I fry a tube and good SS still have an advantage in term of headroom.

 

[rockitman]

You are right. Sensitivity is between 110 and 116dB depending on which way you are talking about (configuration requires 4 stereo power amps)
I don't plan to use tubes, and I know 2 other buyers who don't plan to use tubes. Too noisy, no willingness to change compression driver membrane every time I fry a tube and good SS still have an advantage in term of headroom.

when do you plan to have these speakers (OP 07-26-2013) ...or do you have them now ?

 

[stereo]

when do you plan to have these speakers (OP 07-26-2013) ...or do you have them now ?

Probably May. The first pair has not been shipped yet, should be shipped end of next month. Design and construction was a lot of work. Bass and Mid-bass drivers had to be redesigned from scratch. Active crossover still needs to be refined.
In my case it is even more complicated because I may choose a different configuration than standard Ultimate:
1) Standard Ultimate
source-1 DAC-1 pre-1 digital XO (ADA)-5 channels of amplification- Ultimate

2) My version
source (Combrio) including digital XO and phase alignment (we are finishing SW design) - 5 DACs - 5 integrated amps (volume piloted by Combrio, with different volume control curves to adjust for different drivers sensitivity) - Ultimate. Of course, all synched with a world clock.
Idea is to test both versions in Magico factory, then ship what works best... both scenarios have different plus and minus. That's why it will take a bit of time

Honestly, I am not in a hurry, listening happily to my Q1.

 

[puroagave]

...The Jadis large horn is covering the 180-800Hz. They stretched the horn to go too low compared to its physical size, that's why it has quite a bit of horn coloration as it doesn't work in its optimal frequency band... like most horns on the market. I find it beautiful, but it doesn't sound very good...

I take it you've heard the eurythmie? they brought it to CES one year, the last one I attended. I didnt detect the typical horn colorations (I heard the late versions), to say I was impressed is an understatement I think many there were slack jawed as I was. im not saying its the end-all be-all but obtainable with my resources and it will actually fit in my listening room.

 

[Orb]

You are right. Sensitivity is between 110 and 116dB depending on which way you are talking about (configuration requires 4 stereo power amps)
I don't plan to use tubes, and I know 2 other buyers who don't plan to use tubes. Too noisy, no willingness to change compression driver membrane every time I fry a tube and good SS still have an advantage in term of headroom.

You guys know some of the very best low powered tube gear is as good as high end SS in terms of noise?
But I do take point they can be a pain in backside in terms of maintenance (biasing would be my irritation) and the number that have exceptional noise measurements are a small group.
With sensitivity over 100 I cannot see headroom being any issue with any low powered amps (either tube or SS).

It is interesting how many use tubes with the highest sensitivity Tannoy horn speakers, and many on one forum I am a member initially started with SS.
TBH though I would start with a low powered SS single ended myself after saying all that

Cheers
Orb

 

[microstrip]

You are right. Sensitivity is between 110 and 116dB depending on which way you are talking about (configuration requires 4 stereo power amps)
I don't plan to use tubes, and I know 2 other buyers who don't plan to use tubes. Too noisy, no willingness to change compression driver membrane every time I fry a tube and good SS still have an advantage in term of headroom.

Stereo.

My concern is that designers optimize amplifiers to be operated with average sensitivity around 90 dB - this means that they voice them at some specific average level. When using them with 116 dB/W speakers you will be using them mostly out of the expected optimum zone of power. Did you talk with Magico people about this aspect?

My only very positive experience with high sensitivity speakers was with Avantgarde, and curiously IMHO they only sounded great with their own low power SS amplifier, that was developed specifically for them.

 

[edwardce]

Probably May. The first pair has not been shipped yet, should be shipped end of next month. Design and construction was a lot of work. Bass and Mid-bass drivers had to be redesigned from scratch. Active crossover still needs to be refined.
In my case it is even more complicated because I may choose a different configuration than standard Ultimate:
1) Standard Ultimate
source-1 DAC-1 pre-1 digital XO (ADA)-5 channels of amplification- Ultimate

2) My version
source (Combrio) including digital XO and phase alignment (we are finishing SW design) - 5 DACs - 5 integrated amps (volume piloted by Combrio, with different volume control curves to adjust for different drivers sensitivity) - Ultimate. Of course, all synched with a world clock.
Idea is to test both versions in Magico factory, then ship what works best... both scenarios have different plus and minus. That's why it will take a bit of time

Honestly, I am not in a hurry, listening happily to my Q1.

Stereo, I am following your Ultimate 3 journey with great interest! So your idea is to keep the source in the digital domain through the whole audio chain until the amplifier/speaker? Combrio is not a name in audio I am familiar with, is this their first foray into this type of application? Thanks for keeping us informed!

 

[LL21]

Stereo, I am following your Ultimate 3 journey with great interest! So your idea is to keep the source in the digital domain through the whole audio chain until the amplifier/speaker? Combrio is not a name in audio I am familiar with, is this their first foray into this type of application? Thanks for keeping us informed!

+1! Check out Jeff fritz description of the audeeva conbrio on ultraaudio.com it is described as the most audacious all out music server that never hit production. Matan Arazi is the designer...we are talking 6 figures supposedly if you ever commissioned one.

 

[earlinarizona]

To Stereo: I would think you have looked at the Behold line with multi DAC's, crossover and amplifiers. This is the same system that Dr. Langham has and looks very flexible for multi channel with room correction, time delays and amplifiers that contain DACs in them. Just curious. It seems like this prevents A-d and D-a reconverting in and out of crossovers etc.
The second question is could you elaborate on the difference between the sound you heard on the solid state and the tube Ultimate systems.
Thanks

 

[stereo]

You guys know some of the very best low powered tube gear is as good as high end SS in terms of noise?
But I do take point they can be a pain in backside in terms of maintenance (biasing would be my irritation) and the number that have exceptional noise measurements are a small group.
With sensitivity over 100 I cannot see headroom being any issue with any low powered amps (either tube or SS).

It is interesting how many use tubes with the highest sensitivity Tannoy horn speakers, and many on one forum I am a member initially started with SS.
TBH though I would start with a low powered SS single ended myself after saying all that

Cheers
Orb

most horns are in the 97-105dB.
In a full active system like the Ultimate you get 10-15dB more on sensitivity. Which means that the amp needs to be REALLY silent. There are quite a few amps with REAL S/N ration above 120dB, have not found any tube amp.
The fact that a lot of horns are driven by tubes doesn't mean they sound better with tubes, it can be also that triode lovers choose horns as it is the only way to get decent SPL