Mit oracle matrix 50 ic

[caliaripaolo]

I just introduced this new IC cables from Berkeley alpha DAC to Spectral DMC 15. I feel the sound is moved too far forward. Meanwhile, There are many other positives notes in detail, that is simply outstanding.
I tried to set output of Berkeley from 55 (as suggested) to 50, which has repositioned the scene back slightly, but I am not entirely satisfact.
Please, may I have suggestions by who has these cables on its system?

 

[ack]

Coincidentally, I ordered one too for the same application, two days ago. I'll let you know when I plug it in. Meantime, did you consider that perhaps your previous cable was simply setting things too far back?

 

[caliaripaolo]

may be. My previous was MIT Magnum M1, and yes I know Magnum line is more "closed" cable. I have to tell which after 15 hours of break-in there is a little evolution, including moving down BADA output level is helping. The image is very large and deep. Bass are really "strong" and vivid. The third dimension is great. Seams which in front instruments are moved forward and second and third lines instruments are still in same place (backward).

 

[caliaripaolo]

I only add that there is no comparison with the magnum, which is clearly lower level throughout

 

[ack]

FWIW, my opinion of the Magnum series was never higher than "extreme negative", to put it mildly.

 

[caliaripaolo]

In general, I can agree with you. I think Magnum was/is an "honest" cable, medium value. In particular condition and setting could be a right cable . With Spectral items I found it not so bad.

 

[caliaripaolo]

ack, please, let me know your suggestion when you will plug it.

 

[kennyb123]

FWIW, my opinion of the Magnum series was never higher than "extreme negative", to put it mildly.

Does that opinion account for their price? And does it also apply to the dot 3 series?

I use Magnum M2.3 interconnects in a few spots. These easily beat some well regarded competitors at around the same retail price (prior to this year's insane price increase). So for their old discounted price (around $1200), I thought they were actually a steal. I would not recommend them now though as even at half off they don't justify the price.

 

[caliaripaolo]

Does that opinion account for their price? And does it also apply to the dot 3 series?

I use Magnum M2.3 interconnects in a few spots. These easily beat some well regarded competitors at around the same retail price (prior to this year's insane price increase). So for their old discounted price (around $1200), I thought they were actually a steal. I would not recommend them now though as even at half off they don't justify the price.

It is what I was thinking when I said that Magnum series are "honest" cables as quality / cost ratio. For sure I have to admit which Oracle Matrix 50, now that is more mature after a break in period , is fantastic for details, deep and large sound stage.

 

[kennyb123]

I would think that "extreme negative" would be a totally fair impression if the Magnum performed terribly for the price. Maybe not though if it was crushed by much more expensive cables or later generations at around the same price.

 

[ack]

My comment was based solely on listening impressions - price is up in the air with MIT. e.g. I paid less that 50% off MSRP for the new 50ic. My advice with MIT is to stick with the Oracle or Matrix lines. If you do a quick search I think you will also find here comments by Terry from Overture that the Magnum are not a good match for Spectral either, and I have posted that Spectral told me to stick with either "their own" or the Oracle line (that was before the Matrix appeared).

 

[kennyb123]

I think you will also find here comments by Terry from Overture that the Magnum are not a good match for Spectral either, and I have posted that Spectral told me to stick with either "their own" or the Oracle line (that was before the Matrix appeared).

I believe Terry's comments were in reference to speaker cables - and the Magnum MA in particular. I wouldn't expect this to be a great match with Spectral amps. But in terms of interconnects, the Magnum M1.3 and M2.3 both proved to be far superior to the previous generation of Spectral/MIT interconnects (the 350 UL 2) in my Spectral system.

A friend compared one of my M2.3 interconnects to the Matrix 36 in his Spectral system. He quickly sold the Matrix 36 and purchased my M2.3. So next step up for me in their current lineup is the Matrix 50. This now retails for $5999, so $2500 at half off is still more than twice what I paid for a brand new M2.3. I would love to know if it's worth that. Someday I will have to audition one.

 

[caliaripaolo]

I still feel the sound too moved forward.
has anyone ever tried the direct comparison with oracle v series?

 

[kennyb123]

Which interconnect are you using between you preamp and amp? And what speaker cables?

The reason I ask is that I am a firm believer in the belief that results can be unpredictable if the same technology is not featured in all signal cables. In other words, I would suspect the Matrix 50 to behave unpredictably if Matrix technology wasn't found in the downstream cables as well. The problem that you think you hear with the 50 may really be due to a mismatch downstream. If your downstream cables are in the 2C3D series, then the Oracle V series might be a better match.

The few times I have spoken to MIT, they've always suggested that I stick with the 2C3D series since I am using Oracle V3 speaker cables. That was prior to the introduction of the Matrix series though.

 

[ack]

Which interconnect are you using between you preamp and amp? And what speaker cables?

The reason I ask is that I am a firm believer in the belief that results can be unpredictable if the same technology is not featured in all signal cables. In other words, I would suspect the Matrix 50 to behave unpredictably if Matrix technology wasn't found in the downstream cables as well. The problem that you think you hear with the 50 may really be due to a mismatch downstream. If your downstream cables are in the 2C3D series, then the Oracle V series might be a better match.

The few times I have spoken to MIT, they've always suggested that I stick with the 2C3D series since I am using Oracle V3 speaker cables. That was prior to the introduction of the Matrix series though.

I would agree with you. This is why I thnk the magnums won't do (if the speaker cables won't do then don't use the interconnects either) I use the 50ic downstream as well

 

[kennyb123]

I would agree with you. This is why I thnk the magnums won't do (if the speaker cables won't do then don't use the interconnects either)

Magnums were available in both the 2C3D series (dot 3) and in the MA series. It was specifically combining a cable from the MA series, such as the Magnum MA, with speaker cables from the 2C3D series that MIT advised against. They actually recommended both Shotgun and Magnum from the dot 3 series, suggesting that they'd match well with both my speaker cables and with my Spectral gear. They also said these would be a step up from the Spectral/MIT 350 UL 2 interconnects that I had been using, and they were right (I tried only the S1.3, M2.3 and the M1.3 interconnects and these were all a step up from the 350 UL2).

That makes my move now to the Matrix series more challenging, which is why I will probably stick with the 2C3D series. There remain many steps forward for me in this series given where I am at today.

 

[caliaripaolo]

Which interconnect are you using between you preamp and amp? And what speaker cables?

The reason I ask is that I am a firm believer in the belief that results can be unpredictable if the same technology is not featured in all signal cables. In other words, I would suspect the Matrix 50 to behave unpredictably if Matrix technology wasn't found in the downstream cables as well. The problem that you think you hear with the 50 may really be due to a mismatch downstream. If your downstream cables are in the 2C3D series, then the Oracle V series might be a better match.

The few times I have spoken to MIT, they've always suggested that I stick with the 2C3D series since I am using Oracle V3 speaker cables. That was prior to the introduction of the Matrix series though.

Yes I had this kind of doubt. I use Magnum M1 in all chain IC+speaker cables. I do like the Oracle Matrix 50 in term of definition and reality of sound, but I am obligated to set volume less than previously.
Summarizing, I have to use same technology (matrix) if I desire to be immersed on sound, contrary, I have to use Oracle V version if I desire to let sound much behind the loudspeaker.
But, if I will switch to Oracle V series, I will lose in term of details, compared to the Matrix series?

With the 50's plugged I have the feeling of being too immersed in the center of the band (for jazz ). Not for classic music. For Orchestral music is a great result. Seams to be at the first row of a theatre.

 

[kennyb123]

With the 50's plugged I have the feeling of being too immersed in the center of the band (for jazz ). Not for classic music. For Orchestral music is a great result. Seams to be at the first row of a theatre.

What you describe about what you hear from the 50 sounds a lot like what MIT writes in the comparison section here. I suspect the Matrix series is voiced like the MA series it replaced, so that write up should give you a good insight what the difference might be between 2C3D and the Matrix series too.

I have come to appreciate tone and timbre much more these days, so the Matrix series is appealing from that perspective. I do wonder though what effect using a full loom of Matrix might have on orchestral music.

My use of Nordost power cords did push the overall sound more in the direction of what's described for MA. But interestingly enough, I get a front-mid-hall perspective for orchestral music, but for jazz or small scale classical, it's more like I'm just a few rows back for the action.

The best way for you to judge the Matrxi series is to hear a full loom of Matrix signal cables in your system. Do you have an MIT dealer nearby? It would be great if you could borrow another Matrix interconnect along with some Matrix speaker cables. I have a good feeling when you hear a full loom of MIT's current technology that it would so impress you that you might not care that your seating perspective has changed. You've yet to really hear how good the 50 is as your use of Magnum downstream is hindering it.

 

[caliaripaolo]

What you describe about what you hear from the 50 sounds a lot like what MIT writes in the comparison section here.

I have come to appreciate tone and timbre much more these days, so the Matrix series is appealing from that perspective. I do wonder though what effect using a full loom of Matrix might have on orchestral music.

Did you ever made a direct comparison? my feeling, to date, is controversial. In a positive way, the timbre and the scene are amazing, whereas, especially when there are trumpets or sax as the main actors, their presence is too in front.
The need of details assumes which the sound has to "move" more near your listening point.

 

[kennyb123]

Did you ever made a direct comparison?

No, not yet.

In a positive way, the timbre and the scene are amazing, whereas, especially when there are trumpets or sax as the main actors, their presence is too in front.
The need of details assumes which the sound has to "move" more near your listening point.

You may need to re-position your speakers to accommodate for this change. It's not out of the usual to have to do this when making a cabling change. At the very minimum, you should experiment with toe-in to see if you can shift the staging to a position that's more to your liking.