My Rockport Saga

[FMPND]

Just saw this thread and thought I'd chime in. First, congratulations on a great system and speakers (then again, I may be biased).

Next, I'm the one who reviewed the Aquilas for Stereo Times and it certainly doesn't surprise me that you still own and enjoy them. Andy is a great guy and fabulous designer and my experience over the years with Rockport owners is that they are not equipment junkies (or, to the extent they were previously, they aren't afterwards). We seem to end our journey with the Rockports and our experiences seem to mirror yours.

I had Kharma Exquisites (with diamond tweeters) and Verity Audio Sarastro IIs before Andy called me and asked if I wanted to review the Aquilas and I wasn't looking for or feeling the need for new speakers at the time. Like your experience, the Aquilas don't JUMP out at you in that "hey look at me" way - they just let you really enjoy music and seem to leave most of us wanting for nothing except more source material.

I still own mine and have no plans or desire to upgrade (except if Andy calls me and makes me listen to the Altairs). I know this attitude is sacrilegious for a reviewer but it sure makes my wife happy. I guess my colleagues will want to disown me for admitting this but, with the exception of the Aquilas which I've now owned for over 4 years, I've owned the same TT (SME 30), amps (Lamm 1.2 Refs), line stage (c-j ART 3), phono stage (Aesthetix IO Signature), CDPs (Reimyo CD-777 and AMR-77), rack (SRA CRAZ) and cables (Silversmith Palladium) for 8 years.

Sometimes the fun is not necessarily just in the journey but in the destination (music) as well.

Regards,

Frank

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Just saw this thread and thought I'd chime in. First, congratulations on a great system and speakers (then again, I may be biased).

Next, I'm the one who reviewed the Aquilas for Stereo Times and it certainly doesn't surprise me that you still own and enjoy them. Andy is a great guy and fabulous designer and my experience over the years with Rockport owners is that they are not equipment junkies (or, to the extent they were previously, they aren't afterwards). We seem to end our journey with the Rockports and our experiences seem to mirror yours.

I had Kharma Exquisites (with diamond tweeters) and Verity Audio Sarastro IIs before Andy called me and asked if I wanted to review the Aquilas and I wasn't looking for or feeling the need for new speakers at the time. Like your experience, the Aquilas don't JUMP out at you in that "hey look at me" way - they just let you really enjoy music and seem to leave most of us wanting for nothing except more source material.

I still own mine and have no plans or desire to upgrade (except if Andy calls me and makes me listen to the Altairs). I know this attitude is sacrilegious for a reviewer but it sure makes my wife happy. I guess my colleagues will want to disown me for admitting this but, with the exception of the Aquilas which I've now owned for over 4 years, I've owned the same TT (SME 30), amps (Lamm 1.2 Refs), line stage (c-j ART 3), phono stage (Aesthetix IO Signature), CDPs (Reimyo CD-777 and AMR-77), rack (SRA CRAZ) and cables (Silversmith Palladium) for 8 years.

Sometimes the fun is not necessarily just in the journey but in the destination (music) as well.

Regards,

Frank

hi Frank,

long time no talk, welcome to WBF.

i always enjoy Andy's speakers (and anything Andy makes for that matter).

Mike

 

[Elberoth]

What are the Rockports made of ? Is that an MDF or something more fancy, like phenolic resin for example ?

 

[AudioExplorations]

I purchased Rockport Ankaa's around a year and half ago however I never really gelled with them.

The bass had an obvious hump (at around 40-70 Hz) and overpowered my listening room and I missed resolution and air in the upper frequencies. I am not sure why people enjoy lower resolution speakers because to me that is what high quality audio is all about, it's not like resolution comes at an expense of tone or 'musicality,' that is nonsense.

I replaced them with TAD speakers and never looked back, had a very difficult time selling them and had so settle for a significant loss which was a first for me. I may be one of the only people commenting online who has had less than positive experience with these speakers.

Build quality is superb though and I believe the front baffle was something like 10cm thick!

 

[lasercd]

Elberoth:

The Altair and Arrakis cabinets are constructed from a composite based material. The rest of the line is MDF. All of Andy's speakers are hernia inducing. I have the Aquila and they weigh 300 lbs each.

Ken

 

[Elberoth]

If Avior is also made of MDF, then that would be a showstopper for me.

I just got a deposit for my Sashas, and now I'm looking at my options - I'm considering Alexia, Magico S5/Q3 and Aviors.

 

[lasercd]

Based on Andy's product info I'm pretty sure the Avior are constructed from MDF. Even still they are very substantial. You should hear them. Even better if you can find a second hand set of Aquila you should jump on them.

 

[AudioExplorations]

My local dealer has been trying to sell an ex-demo pair of Aquila's for over 2 years, he is asking 31K eur. PM if interested.

 

[Elberoth]

My local dealer has been trying to sell an ex-demo pair of Aquila's for over 2 years, he is asking 31K eur. PM if interested.

That is what worries me about the Rockports. They seem to be hard to resale and do not hold their value well. Magico S5 and Alexia on the other hand, should hold their value extremely well and will be easy to resale if I happen not to like them.

 

[AudioExplorations]

That is what worries me about the Rockports. They seem to be hard to resale and do not hold their value well. Magico S5 and Alexia on the other hand, should hold their value extremely well and will be easy to resale if I happen not to like them.

Although these you would have to buy new...

 

[LL21]

What are the Rockports made of ? Is that an MDF or something more fancy, like phenolic resin for example ?

Two descriptions of Rockport's cabinet process:

1. The Altair and Arrakis (plus older speakers like Merak Sheritan II, Hyperion, Antares) are made this way, though since this describes on old speaker, the process is probably quite improved/evolved:

From Stereophile: "Briefly, here's how the Merak II is built (see my August 2002 review for a more detailed description of the process): A female mold is sprayed with an industrial-strength version of Pam, then laid up with layers of resin reinforced with glass fiber, much like the body of a Corvette. Each layer is allowed to harden before the next is applied, until there is a "high tensile strength" shell, 10mm thick.

The same reinforced-resin process is then applied in reverse to a smaller, male mold. When that shell has hardened, it is pulled off the mold and inserted into the larger one. A goo of high-density, high-hysteresis-loss, mineral-filled epoxy—specially developed for Rockport—is then poured between the two shells, to form a 30mm-thick core bonding the shells together.

The result is a five-sided, molded monocoque cabinet with a host of features the above description doesn't touch on. Internal braces are built into the mold, each drive-unit has its own chamber, and an integral molded rear port (the port lining itself is machined from thick aluminum) is part of the separately laid-up cabinet rear, which is eventually mated with and sealed to the five-sided box. There is only one seam in the entire structure.

Rockport claims the epoxy core material is three times as dense as typical medium-density fiberboard, while the outer shell is three times as stiff and dense as the same thickness of MDF. The composite "cannot be matched by single-material construction," says Rockport, because no single material—whether MDF, or sheets of an acrylic resin such as Corian or Fountainhead—has the same combination of high mass, high stiffness, and high damping. Rockport's molding process also allows the Merak's cabinet geometry to be optimized for driver placement, reduction of standing waves, and other design goals that would be difficult or impossible to attain using normal woodworking techniques, according to the propaganda sheet Payor faxed me.

The final finish is another Rockport magilla. A primer of polyester is followed by much hand-sanding, an epoxy sealer, a urethane base, and, finally, a clear coat. The standard finish is a glossy black subtly flecked to make it look (to my eyes) like the cosmos; any automotive color that suits your fancy is also available, at extra cost. The front baffle is fitted with treble-damper felt from Steinway & Sons, as in the Antares. In fact, it would be fair to say that the Merak II is basically an Antares cut off at the knees—no, the ankles."


2. Current production speakers (again unlike Arrakis and Altair which are described above) are made this way as the above approach got too costly:

From a different Review: "Like the Mira’s cabinet, the Ankaa’s is built of MDF, though the material is not used in a standard way. Payor’s approach to constrained-layer damping includes bonding together panels of MDF with a layer of viscoelastic material to make extremely stiff cabinet walls (due to the increase in section thickness) that are also well damped. The viscoelastic pulls double duty, acting as adhesive and damping material. The Ankaa’s massive front baffle is no less than 4" thick; the rest of the cabinet walls are up to 2.5" thick. The cabinet is also designed to prevent edge diffraction anomalies (as the speaker’s radiation transitions from 2pi to 4pi space with descending frequency) and Payor told me that the real key to minimizing diffraction anomalies is the Ankaa’s gracefully changing baffle contour, which is devoid of sharp edges or hard corners. The midrange and tweeter are solidly mounted to the front baffle, and the baffle surface is covered with a flush-mounted fabric insert that reduces reflections from the baffle itself. In the last few years I’ve performed the knuckle-rap test on the cabinet of every speaker that has visited my and Jeff’s homes, and of every speaker I’ve heard at audio dealers; the Ankaa’s cabinet was about as dead as any I’ve heard -- save for Rockport’s own larger and more costly Altair and Arrakis models."

 

[LL21]

That is what worries me about the Rockports. They seem to be hard to resale and do not hold their value well. Magico S5 and Alexia on the other hand, should hold their value extremely well and will be easy to resale if I happen not to like them.

I hear you...personally, one would love to think the journey stops with a specific speaker of that caliber...so no need for resale price protection. Based on my personal experience with a very old Merak Sheritan II, i could believe a big old Rockport (old Arrakis) just might be the last one for me. But one needs to keep in mind the potentiail exit strategy.

For me, i;ve usually bought 2nd hand...so most of my exit strategy is having bought well...nevertheless, i would have thought for the better known Rockports...there is a buyer out there willing to pay fair price for it...though it may be less well known than, say, wilson, the reputation it does have is one of exceptional build quality and long-term reliability supported by Andy Payor and company. Just my own thoughts.

 

[jfrech]

What are the Rockports made of ? Is that an MDF or something more fancy, like phenolic resin for example ?

Elberoth, we've traded notes over the years. And you know I own Wilson Maxx 3's...and a HUGE Wilson fan over the years owning WP 6's, 8's, Maxx 2's and now 3's. I can assure you..these Aviors, with the MDF cabinet...are killer good. From what I've heard...these are the speakers to beat below 70k. The Wilson's (my Maxx's) might have more dynamics....more mid bass slam...the Rockport Aviors are so so transparent...speed to die for....more even from top to very bottom than my wilsons. I actually think they may go lower than my Maxx 3's. But I haven't had em in my room. I have heard them side by side with Sasha's...

Please...at your own peril...don't pass these up for sake of cabinet materials. Rockport has done something in their construction technique to minimize whatever resonance the mdf usually makes...

my 2 cents as a happy wilson owner

 

[Elberoth]

lloyd - thanks for sharing this info. Indeed, it seems that Rockport's speakers, even if made from MDF, are not just another MDF box.

jfrech - that is very interesting. Could you shed more light on your Avior vs Sasha comparisions ? What were the differencies, what were the conditions under which the comparo took place ? (was that same room, what elestronics was used).

I would like to know what to expect.

My dealer also swears, that the Alexia is miles better than the Sasha.

 

[LL21]

lloyd - thanks for sharing this info. Indeed, it seems that Rockport's speakers, even if made from MDF, are not just another MDF box.

jfrech - that is very interesting. Could you shed more light on your Avior vs Sasha comparisions ? What were the differencies, what were the conditions under which the comparo took place ? (was that same room, what elestronics was used).

I would like to know what to expect.

My dealer also swears, that the Alexia is miles better than the Sasha.

I have heard the same about Alexia v Sasha. Primarily that the speaker is a small XLF...like the Maxx3 was often called 'close to the Alexandria 2 Series 2...the case is comparable here. While the XLF is definitely beyond the Alexia, the sound quality, character, coherence, treble (also silk dome i believe) are all very XLF-like.

My local dealer here said when he gets the chance, he is going to buy one personally.

Look forward to both of your comments about Rockport v Wilson.

 

[jfrech]

lloyd - thanks for sharing this info. Indeed, it seems that Rockport's speakers, even if made from MDF, are not just another MDF box.

jfrech - that is very interesting. Could you shed more light on your Avior vs Sasha comparisions ? What were the differencies, what were the conditions under which the comparo took place ? (was that same room, what elestronics was used).

I would like to know what to expect.

My dealer also swears, that the Alexia is miles better than the Sasha.

I have not heard the Alexia yet. I'd like to soon. Although If I were to step up in the Wilson line from my Maxx 3's it have to be used X2's. I always thought they'd come out with a Maxx 4, maybe some of the XLF in the Maxx form factor. The conditions were same room & same equipment. Nagra preamp, dCS scarlatti stack, Ayre MXR's or Nagra 300b amp, Transparent cables. The Rockports main difference with Wilsons are in transparency, speed (notes starting, stoping and lingering) and timing. These areas are not subtle. You don't have to go back and forth. The timing is interesting because you notice the interaction of the musicians more...it's a little like adding a clock to a digital set up. You didn't realize you were missing something until the clock shows up. I do also think the Rockports are more even handed top to bottom and go a bit lower...although this depends more on the music your listening to...some comment on the Wilson "midbass" bump....well I never noticed it really...but you do when you compare to something like a rockport. Now I tend to like the midbass bump...(if that is what it is-so don't know if this is a negative really). Also I think the Wilson's have more dynamic ability and a whole lot more adjustability. This adjustability may or may not be important.

People comment how the Rockports just pull you in....you loose concern with everything else. It's really true..a very special speaker. The Wilson is a excellent speaker, world class. I'd buy the Rockport Avior vs Sasha if I were buying in that price range. Honestly...I might even take the Avior over my Maxx 3's. This is more of a trade off...but gee the price difference !. Again...I have not heard the Alexia...that maybe a interesting compare...

And you can't go wrong with either speaker. Also before I'd swap out Sasha's....I'd spend money on room treatments, rest of system etc. Sasha's in a great room likely beat Rockports in a average room. Pretty sure I remember your room as recently remodeled and very good....

 

[microstrip]

(...) My dealer also swears, that the Alexia is miles better than the Sasha.

Elberoth,
You can not compare them. I have now listened to the Alexia several times, one of the times for a longer period in a place where I usually listened to Sasha's.
The Alexia have a fluidity and disappear from stage in a way different from the Sasha, as they have much better nuance. They have the typical Wilson dynamics, solidity and scale, but more refined and interfering less with the music. Perhaps stones will fly, but I hope you will understand my comment - they make digital sound less digital.

 

[asiufy]

Elberoth,

If you plan to stick with the NHB-108, then you must at least audition a Q3. It's an otherwordly good combination.


alexandre

 

[LL21]

?.. Rockports main difference with Wilsons are in transparency, speed (notes starting, stoping and lingering) and timing. These areas are not subtle. You don't have to go back and forth. The timing is interesting because you notice the interaction of the musicians more...some comment on the Wilson "midbass" bump....well I never noticed it really...but you do when you compare to something like a rockport. Now I tend to like the midbass bump...(if that is what it is-so don't know if this is a negative really). Also I think the Wilson's have more dynamic ability and a whole lot more adjustability. This adjustability may or may not be important.

People comment how the Rockports just pull you in....you loose concern with everything else...

Detail retrieval and extreme alacrity on a system at a dealer in Asia once showed me exactly what you describe...incredible understanding of all the contrapuntal themes in a piece of music I never understood before. It was truly eye opening...I suspect it started with the source but clearly everything mattered to accomplish this.

As for bass, my limited experience with Rockport bass is that it's feels hewn from granite. I love my Wilsons, and the bass is stellar thanks to a great installation incl a Velodyne DD18...but my recollection is the Rockport bass I heard seemed even tighter, even more 'hewn from granite'. It's like u added another 100lbs of solid rock around the bass enclosure of an ordinary high end speaker.

I have been fortunate to get to know a few speakers that one can play and sit back to enjoy the music...SF, big Wilsons to name my favourite 2 which I also know well...I am convinced for me Rockport fit into this category.

In the same way, Gryphon is effortless, hewn from granite in the bass but exceedingly detailed and quite pure in tonality...I feel the same voicing or approach with the Rockport I heard. My two cents.

 

[MadFloyd]

I was told the NHB-108 didn't do well with 4ohm loads. Maybe the amp was the problem?

John, you have my curiosity piqued. As you know I have Sashas at my home and a Rockport dealer fairly close by... hmm.