REL No. 25
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Got a call last week from a local dealer who had a customer decide he didn't want the No25's that he had ordered and wanted to know if I might be interested. So .. they brought them over and I can tell you they aren't going back! Clay from Rel will be over next week to work his setup magic ... that said I'm trying to get them integrated as best I can just to see how close I can get to his setup skills! 
That said these have replaced a pair of Martin Logan Balanced Force 212's and my main speakers are Wilson Alexx's. Let me also mentioned that my room certainly has some low bass issues that even best trained Wilson dealers couldn't address. Where the speakers image best and create the best soundstage just doesn't allow for deep bass reproduction from the main speakers. Had this issue with Sasha's before and my Martin Logans before that which is when I purchased the Balanced force 212s. So when I first powered these up in their initial positions just slightly outside and slightly offset back from my Alexx's per the Rel manual what I noticed first was that the Alexx's seemed much more open than before. I thought I must be imagining things so I turned off the subs and it changed and not for the better. Turned the subs back on and everything opened back up again. Going through the quick setup procedure I pretty quickly had these dialed in to a very listenable state and the best way I can describe what they are doing in my room is that they simply make the Alexx's sound like they are much more extended than they are in my room and opens the soundstage up tremendously and in my room that was already a strength of the setup. The walls have been removed it seems but the very solid images up front remain very solid.
These subs it seems go very low and are very fast. With just a little crossover and level work I really couldn't tell any longer what was the Alexx and what was the sub. It really reminds me of a pair of Alexx's that I heard at a dealer that had exceptionally low bass output with no subs and was perhaps the best I've heard Alexx's sound so I know they can do low bass ... again just not in my room without some help. That said I'm already totally satisfied and know that Clay will likely best my efforts although it will be a fun experience and I'll update with the results of his work which I'm sure will be even better than what I've done!
In comparison to the Balanced Force 212's ... The Martin Logan subs do have more ultimate output so if you are looking to tear the walls down they certainly can do that very well and for movies that might even be desired. LOL. My son who likes very different music than I do totally prefers the 212's for their room pressurization/crushing capability ... Seriously though ... the ML 212's do go very low also but where the Rel is much better is the disappearing act they perform. With the 212's I could never quite accept that the bass was totally integrated with Alexx. With the No25's I'm having a hard time believing the bass is NOT coming from the Alexx's.
George
That said these have replaced a pair of Martin Logan Balanced Force 212's and my main speakers are Wilson Alexx's. Let me also mentioned that my room certainly has some low bass issues that even best trained Wilson dealers couldn't address. Where the speakers image best and create the best soundstage just doesn't allow for deep bass reproduction from the main speakers. Had this issue with Sasha's before and my Martin Logans before that which is when I purchased the Balanced force 212s. So when I first powered these up in their initial positions just slightly outside and slightly offset back from my Alexx's per the Rel manual what I noticed first was that the Alexx's seemed much more open than before. I thought I must be imagining things so I turned off the subs and it changed and not for the better. Turned the subs back on and everything opened back up again. Going through the quick setup procedure I pretty quickly had these dialed in to a very listenable state and the best way I can describe what they are doing in my room is that they simply make the Alexx's sound like they are much more extended than they are in my room and opens the soundstage up tremendously and in my room that was already a strength of the setup. The walls have been removed it seems but the very solid images up front remain very solid.
These subs it seems go very low and are very fast. With just a little crossover and level work I really couldn't tell any longer what was the Alexx and what was the sub. It really reminds me of a pair of Alexx's that I heard at a dealer that had exceptionally low bass output with no subs and was perhaps the best I've heard Alexx's sound so I know they can do low bass ... again just not in my room without some help. That said I'm already totally satisfied and know that Clay will likely best my efforts although it will be a fun experience and I'll update with the results of his work which I'm sure will be even better than what I've done!
In comparison to the Balanced Force 212's ... The Martin Logan subs do have more ultimate output so if you are looking to tear the walls down they certainly can do that very well and for movies that might even be desired. LOL. My son who likes very different music than I do totally prefers the 212's for their room pressurization/crushing capability ... Seriously though ... the ML 212's do go very low also but where the Rel is much better is the disappearing act they perform. With the 212's I could never quite accept that the bass was totally integrated with Alexx. With the No25's I'm having a hard time believing the bass is NOT coming from the Alexx's.
George
Attachments
Thank you, George, for this very interesting and detailed report! I have never actually even heard REL No. 25s (I have heard several times only my friend's 212/SEs -- which are wonderful). But I have always harbored the suspicion that the No. 25 must be fantastic!
Are you using the speaker level input or the line level input on the RELs?
I appreciate that this is probably a premature question, but does your experience so far incline you to imagine what two No. 25s stacked on each side, or three stacked on each side, might sound like?
Are you using the speaker level input or the line level input on the RELs?
I appreciate that this is probably a premature question, but does your experience so far incline you to imagine what two No. 25s stacked on each side, or three stacked on each side, might sound like?
George,
Congrats! That is really big news...very interesting comparison as well. The arithmetic suggests that 212 has slightly more cone surface area than the REL25 but not much, and I have not checked excursion. So interesting that you feel it has more outright output...but I cannot imagine the 25 does not have plenty of output.
And of course, the inevitable question is something Ron beat me to...which is of course stacked...ie, another pair of 25s!!! Ha!
Congrats! That is really big news...very interesting comparison as well. The arithmetic suggests that 212 has slightly more cone surface area than the REL25 but not much, and I have not checked excursion. So interesting that you feel it has more outright output...but I cannot imagine the 25 does not have plenty of output.
And of course, the inevitable question is something Ron beat me to...which is of course stacked...ie, another pair of 25s!!! Ha!
Ron ... yes to both your questions
I am using the upgraded bassline blue high level cable from Rel to connect to my amps. In fact I wouldn't have a great option low level as there is no XLR low level input(only RCA) other than the .1 Low level input which of course bypasses the crossover. My BAT Rex2 preamp has only balanced outputs. This seems like a minor oversight to me but the high level is their preferred input at any rate and is working well for me.
And yes ... I plan on discussing another pair with Clay when he is here next week to try and gain an understanding of what I might expect to gain from stacking an additional pair of 25's. I'll let you all know what he says and of course how the setup goes and how he bested my best setup efforts!
George
Thanks! I will hazard a guess that part of the disappearing act of the No25's is the fact that they have properly sized the enclosure for the driver. The enclosure is actually quite a bit larger for 1-15" driver than the enclosure Martin Logan uses for 2-12" drivers. Only time will tell if I can resist the pull of adding another set or two of these huge subs!
George
Reference Analog
Fleetwood Sound Owners Group
Thanks! Look forward to reading what your dealer says about the 2nd set!
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
I just got these two G1 Mk2 and I set them up yesterday with the help of Rel and we spent a while positioning each sub omn its own and then after that was done we did some small adjustments to make them seamless. I am not really a sub fan but these woofers work really well and sound is excellent. I am thinking of stacking more but I will give it some time to fully settle in and I have a few little tweeks I have yet to do.
I think that REL has one of the best manuals for setting up a subwoofer. It's very thorough, yet simple and understandable for everybody.
That setup looks amazing, congratulations! What are the speakers? Gobel? What is the tweeter on them?
That's not a tweeter; that's the amazing bending wave nearly full-range driver!
Impressive indeed. Need to take a listen to that. It's so hard to get it right. So it's kind of a BMR?
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Music travels across the Bending Wave driver like on the sound board of a musical instrument. It is not a push pull driver, not a dipole, not a bipole.
It is full range from 160hz to over 30000 hz.
It is full range from 160hz to over 30000 hz.
BMR is a Balanced Mode Radiator, it's those flat diaphragm drivers that can play very wide in terms of frequency. That was my guess
For curious ones: https://www.tectonicaudiolabs.com/w...9/05/Tectonic_BMRWhitePaper_Rev2.0_2019-1.pdf
Very interesting stuff. Is there anything more to read on it?
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