What I don’t understand fully is why such a “well engineered” room needs further sound attenuation absorbers / diffusors. In my opinion the Noxon approach is difficient. Sure, the room is isolated and the walls don’t ring, but after such expense and consideration of details adding ugly panels to the room seems wrong to me. You mean I have to move the absorber/diffusor out of the way to find my LP or CD, are you kidding me?
One of the primary goals of my own room design was never having to look at recording studio sound attenuation add-ons. Or, look for example at the new Magico showroom, sure the walls look more like a recording studio, but with an aesthetic that produces an overall harmonious gestalt.
The Harley room in no way reflects the aesthetic of his beautiful southwestern adobe style home. I personally would want to bring that design aesthetic into my room, and I’d for sure want to look out on nature while listening. A missed opportunity IMHO. Building a room from scratch means I have the ability to include those details in the planning phase.
My criticism is the Noxon model is incomplete, and the result is a room that does not help any fellow lobbying his wife for a purpose built room. My wife said sure, we can add the expense of your spanky listening room, but it has to look nice and at least reflect the overall aesthetic of our home.To Bobvin. Very confused as to purpose of your post. If Mr. Harley likes it, isn't that really all that matters? And why should he care what you think?
My criticism is the Noxon model is incomplete, and the result is a room that does not help any fellow lobbying his wife for a purpose built room. My wife said sure, we can add the expense of your spanky listening room, but it has to look nice and at least reflect the overall aesthetic of our home.
The architecture of the desert southwest and the adobe aesthetic is beautiful (to me). Maybe the adobe design is only on the outside of his home, and the interior has none of those cues though I doubt it. His listening room has none of those elements so the room would be a complete change of the whole gestalt of the architecture of his home. As I said, is my opinion he missed an opportunity. Why not a beautifully designed and appointed room that sounds amazing and fits with the whole desert southwest gestalt? Harley went to a “professional” (Noxon) for the acoustics, and could have easily hired an interior designer.
There is so much beauty in the architecture of that part of the country, but none of it in his room. Sad.
To put in the vernacular,Bob, I have attempted to explain this several times on this forum, there is no such thing as a set and forget room acoustics and whatever engineered room was implemented is no “one size fits all”. It’s physics, acoustics and psychoacoustics so it doesn’t work the way that you think. ToYour room, as well as all other engineered rooms, are not optimized for your system or for any other systems. Robert Hartley appears to understand this. By engineering it, it give the room a fighting chance by choosing the dimensions that drive the room modes to where they are least offensive and it dampen the walls to absorb energy, but beyond that, a room is sill a room, no matter how well engineered it is. You have it in your head that an engineered room is a solution; but to which problem? This is why I constantly state that engineered rooms are a waste of money and do not deliver on their promises. To do it it correctly, an engineer room would implement a large number of automated acoustic louvers and would have to be programmed for active adaptive response. Anyone have, see or hear of one of these types of engineered listening rooms? No, because this requires the kind of investment and engineering that is suitable for refined concert halls and not for homes.
Yikes hate it when Dolphins or Porpoises are caught, Dolphin fish okay.To put in the vernacular,
,No matter , how good your tuna net is some tuna will slip through and some dolphins will be caught.
Exactly Ron,I totally applaud Robert for learning about listening room design and build options, and for selecting what he believes are the best solutions and executing to build a dedicated listening room. (And, personally, I'm envious that his room is a wonderfully long 28 feet!)
Having the ability to be flexible and to add additional acoustic treatment even to a purpose built listening room makes sense to me, especially in Robert's case, because he is going to have an endless parade of loudspeakers through the room. How can one solve a 100% comprehensive acoustics equation if one doesn't even know the speakers one is working with?
Oh nay nay… I am not of the opinion an engineered room is the final word. Every engineering solution is a set of compromises. But my room after it was gutted and rebuilt is far superior to what it was before. Compromises for sure, my budget was not unlimited. But I have also had four completely different speaker designs in the room (Wilson Alexia, Alsyvox Botticelli, Bayz Counterpoint, and Diesis Roma) and other than placement no additional tweaking necessary. And it is a warm and inviting environment. The engineer says she designs to make a room sound good, but feel good as well. And I wanted one that also looked nice (and pleased my wife!)Bob, I have attempted to explain this several times on this forum, there is no such thing as a set and forget room acoustics and whatever engineered room was implemented is no “one size fits all”. It’s physics, acoustics and psychoacoustics so it doesn’t work the way that you think. Your room, as well as all other engineered rooms, are not optimized for your system or for any other systems. Robert Hartley appears to understand this. By engineering it, it give the room a fighting chance by choosing the dimensions that drive the room modes to where they are least offensive and it dampen the walls to absorb energy, but beyond that, a room is sill a room, no matter how well engineered it is. You have it in your head that an engineered room is a solution; but to which problem? This is why I constantly state that engineered rooms are a waste of money and do not deliver on their promises. To do it it correctly, an engineer room would implement a large number of automated acoustic louvers and would have to be programmed for active adaptive response. Anyone have, see or hear of one of these types of engineered listening rooms? No, because this requires the kind of investment and engineering that is suitable for refined concert halls and not for homes.
How can one solve a 100% comprehensive acoustics equation if one doesn't even know the speakers one is working with?
A room designed for one set of speakers is not what I would call a well engineered room, for the reasons you mention. Other than knowing my room would always be setup so that I could enjoy the view, which meant the speakers would be placed in at least similar configuration, a primary design goal was to be able to have the highly reflective glass of the picture window and two doors be incorporated and dealt with in the acoustic model. A ported box speaker (Wilson), a dipole planer, an omni directional, and a horn / open-baffle hybrid all sound spectacular in the room. That could never have happened if the design was specific to the Wilson speakers.Or speakers and electronics that will be used in the room in the future. The flexibility is not “baked in” with dedicated bespoke engineered rooms. It is painfully obvious that the original design is not even aimed to address the owners’ current, at the time of the build, system, yet alone any future changes in equipment or room outfitting.
A room designed for one set of speakers is not what I would call a well engineered room, for the reasons you mention. Other than knowing my room would always be setup so that I could enjoy the view, which meant the speakers would be placed in at least similar configuration, a primary design goal was to be able to have the highly reflective glass of the picture window and two doors be incorporated and dealt with in the acoustic model. A ported box speaker (Wilson), a dipole planer, an omni directional, and a horn / open-baffle hybrid all sound spectacular in the room. That could never have happened if the design was specific to the Wilson speakers.
I get the feeling that most people that spend on a dedicated bespoke engineered room are under the belief that they are getting an optimized solution; they are obviously not and that is where first meet expectations comes in. You are arguing both sides of the coin here. If all you want is a nice looking room with a view then there are many contractors for that type of build out that are not specialized but can be given guidance and direction. So which one is it? Is your engineered room any different than a well thought out DIY room? I have made no attempt to address the room and I believe that the sound of my systems speak for themselves. Some times it pays of to be smarter than to reach for your wallet.
I am not sure I agree. A well engineered room will sound better with every speaker in theory and practice. There is such a thing as having proper dimensions, controlling bass better, etc.
I have heard a lot of DIY rooms and the engineered rooms like Harley's and Hugh's are always much better.
Also, you don't know what a well engineered room would do for your system if you have never tried it...even it the system sounds good already.
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