Some interesting stuff at Munich 2016

[FrantzM]

I have heard these speakers in NYC and indeed they are smooth sounding ... Not syrupy smooth, simply live and there...

I would not get in the debate but would say that I am more and more interested by horns speakers. Some are just an affectation , IMO, that play loud and dynamic but not much else.. many however are that true to life, true to the signal. And it seems that audiophiles are taking notice. And so are,of course, High End manufacturers and wannabes with the obligatory high price and over the top aesthetics . JBL seems to live in a different universe content to churn out superlative products at (relatively) sane price.. K2, M2, Everest , 4367, etc

How much do these Everest run for, BTW?

 

[Simone Leroy]

I have heard these speakers in NYC and indeed they are smooth sounding ... Not syrupy smooth, simply live and there...

I would not get in the debate but would say that I am more and more interested by horns speakers. Some are just an affectation , IMO, they play loud and dynamic but not much else.. many however are that true to life, true to the signal. How much do these Everest run for?

Here in Italy they Are around 65.000 €

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have come to the tentative conclusion that, to my ears, horns, at their best, can reproduce jazz and classical music with greater instrumental body and weight, greater “jump factor,” and greater overall realism than any other speaker technology I have heard. There seems to be something about the way horns move air which allows a greater suspension of disbelief on instruments like saxophone, tuba, trumpet, etc. Those instruments sound more real and more “in-the-room being played by a live musician” than I have heard from any other type of speaker.

In Munich I experienced a never-to-be-forgotten revelation with the giant, 18 foot wide Cessaro Gamma II F-8 system. Playing an LP of Scheherazade, among others, that system sounded more like a full, live symphony orchestra arrayed in front of me than I have ever experienced in my life. I heard, more realistically than I have ever heard before, the power and majesty of a symphony orchestra reproduced in front of me. Soaring volume, crashing drums, galloping rhythms -- all at fully realistic sound pressure levels.

The suspension of disbelief from classical music on the Cessaro was easier than I have ever experienced before on symphony orchestra music. It was absolutely thrilling and transfixing!

But I also came to the conclusion that for some reason I do not hear horns (not any of them, so far) reproducing vocals with the singer-in-the-room transparency to which I am accustomed from electrostatic panels, from ribbon-based speakers and from the best dynamic driver systems.

 

[bonzo75]

The best Horn System in Munich HiEnd 2016 for me was the JBL Everest loudspeakers (one of those exceptions I spoke of before).
In Munich these loudspeakers sounded very smooth and realistic, probably thanks to an "all Mark Levinson" electronics and Server-DAC which drove them beautifully.View attachment 27016View attachment 27016

Not even close. I have heard this, K2 66000 twice in private set ups, another one from the 4000 series - but in this case it is your opinion about one speaker and I respect that though we disagree, unlike your opinion after hearing a few horns being used to blanket out a whole speaker genre

 

[bonzo75]

I have heard these speakers in NYC and indeed they are smooth sounding ... Not syrupy smooth, simply live and there...

I would not get in the debate but would say that I am more and more interested by horns speakers. Some are just an affectation , IMO, that play loud and dynamic but not much else.. many however are that true to life, true to the signal. And it seems that audiophiles are taking notice. And so are,of course, High End manufacturers and wannabes with the obligatory high price and over the top aesthetics . JBL seems to live in a different universe content to churn out superlative products at (relatively) sane price.. K2, M2, Everest , 4367, etc

How much do these Everest run for, BTW?

You can get K2 66000 used for around 20k EUR

 

[Simone Leroy]

I have come to the tentative conclusion that, to my ears, horns, at their best, can reproduce jazz and classical music with greater instrumental body and weight, greater “jump factor,” and greater overall realism than any other speaker technology I have heard. There seems to be something about the way horns move air which allows a greater suspension of disbelief on instruments like saxophone, tuba, trumpet, etc. Those instruments sound more real and more “in-the-room being played by a live musician” than I have heard from any other type of speaker.
In Munich I experienced a never-to-be-forgotten revelation with the giant, 18 foot wide Cessaro Gamma II F-8 system. Playing an LP of Scheherazade, among others, that system sounded more like a full, live symphony orchestra arrayed in front of me than I have ever experienced in my life. I heard, more realistically than I have ever heard before, the power and majesty of a symphony orchestra reproduced in front of me. Soaring volume, crashing drums, galloping rhythms -- all at fully realistic sound pressure levels.

The suspension of disbelief from classical music on the Cessaro was easier than I have ever experienced before on symphony orchestra music. It was absolutely thrilling and transfixing!

But I also came to the conclusion that for some reason I do not hear horns (not any of them, so far) reproducing vocals with the singer-in-the-room transparency to which I am accustomed from electrostatic panels, from ribbon-based speakers and from the best dynamic driver systems.

Ron Resnik: But ..but... If you were that guy with the Sherazade LP (Sherazade by Rimsky Korsakoff with Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Fritz Reiner) we met in Cessaro Room first, later in Wilson Alexia room and at last in Vandersteen room! Do you remember me? If you were that guy..I mean...
That LP sounded terrific...even If ad terrific it sound the same CD ripped and played via Berkeley...

 

[bonzo75]

Ron Resnik: But ..but... If you were that guy with the Sherazade LP (Sherazade by Rimsky Korsakoff with Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Fritz Reiner) we met in Cessaro Room first, later in Wilson Alexia room and at last in Vandersteen room! Do you remember me? If you were that guy..I mean...
That LP sounded terrific...even If ad terrific it sound the same CD ripped and played via Berkeley...

No, that guy was me. Ron was listening to my LP with me (and spiritofmusic). And yes, I played it in the Vandy room and Wilson Alexia room.

 

[Simone Leroy]

No, that guy was me. Ron was listening to my LP with me (and spiritofmusic). And yes, I played it in the Vandy room and Wilson Alexia room.

It's unbeliaveble!! We met over there! And I told you that I usually listen to ripped CD with great satisfaction...

 

[FrantzM]

You can get K2 66000 used for around 20k EUR

I like that kind of price better

In serious consideration and so are the M2 system and the 4367

 

[bonzo75]

It's unbeliaveble!! We met over there! And I told you that I usually listen to ripped CD with great satisfaction...

So do I . I even listen to youtube with great satisfaction, but in audiophilia as a hobby it's always about 'what's better' - we do not need most of the toys we own to listen to be satisfied with music - music does that. Which is why you or I could not listen to well-recorded electronic music over poorly recorded classical music (well at least I could not).

 

[Simone Leroy]

In any case, Bonzo and Ron, If you affirm that Sharazade LP sounded in Cessaro room like a real orchestra...I wonder If I usually head a different tipe of orchestra! I mean... The strings sounded completely different from those of a real orchestra! But also the woodwinds sounded very strange on Cessaro system!... And the Tympani sa well... The only instruments tha sounded real were...the horns and the trumpets!

 

[bonzo75]

In any case, Bonzo and Ron, If you affirm that Sharazade LP sounded in Cessaro room like a real orchestra..

I did not say that

 

[Simone Leroy]

Ok Bonzo, but now I'm getting curious..... What was the room in which your LP Sherazade sounded better? In your opinion of course...

 

[bonzo75]

Ok Bonzo, but now I'm getting curious..... What was the room in which your LP Sherazade sounded better? In your opinion of course...

About Munich it's difficult to say. On horns, Tune Audio Animas did some things right on classical. the hORNS universum from autotech were very good, but in show conditions cannot confirm on their bass. The small stenheim (cone speakers) sounded great. The Western Electric usually sound great at Munich but not this time. I do not like panels at shows. Difficult to set up and the rear wave gets messed up because of the lack of proper wall behind them. Cessaros too did some things right, they sounded large in scale because well, they are large in scale.

My favorites outside of Munich for orchestral, small ensemble, and vocal rendition are Apogee Grands, followed by Apogee full ranges, both with Graz panels and restored by Henk in Netherlands.

 

[Simone Leroy]

About Munich it's difficult to say. On horns, Tune Audio Animas did some things right on classical. the hORNS universum from autotech were very good, but in show conditions cannot confirm on their bass. The small stenheim (cone speakers) sounded great. The Western Electric usually sound great at Munich but not this time. I do not like panels at shows. Difficult to set up and the rear wave gets messed up because of the lack of proper wall behind them. Cessaros too did some things right, they sounded large in scale because well, they are large in scale.
My favorites outside of Munich for orchestral, small ensemble, and vocal rendition are Apogee Grands, followed by Apogee full ranges, both with Graz panels and restored by Henk in Netherlands.

Stenheim, the "smallest ones" sounded great but the room was very very small with some troubles on bass frequencies. The Stenheim Reference system, cabled with Silenzio, was stunning ...in my opinion...
The electrostatic panels were really a delusion, Silberstatic I mean and Audio Physic in particular....
But the Martin Logan Neolith were great, with some troubles in bass frequencies (once again) but impressive for realistic and transparent sound....

 

[bonzo75]

Stenheim, the "smallest ones" sounded great but the room was very very small with some troubles on bass frequencies. The Stenheim Reference system, cabled with Silenzio, was stunning ...in my opinion...
The electrostatic panels were really a delusion, Silberstatic I mean and Audio Physic in particular....
But the Martin Logan Neolith were great, with some troubles in bass frequencies (once again) but impressive for realistic and transparent sound....

I owned ML summits, but didn't like the Neolith set up much except that the Continuum TT was giving it a lot of weight. You mean Audio Exclusiv (audio physic are a cone speaker). Audio Exklusiv sounds better outside of shows. I liked the small Stenheims because they did well despite such a small room, so I would like to listen to them properly. My Munich notes are here My Munich Notes

 

[sandecker]

Hello

It is new monoamps

What are those mono amps 909 mono or a new model? Not that there is a 909 monos, the 909 like most Burmester amps can be bridged.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gosh, we really ALL hear things TOTALLY differently.
HifiClube review says the Ypsilon transport/dac/amps sounded "electronic" on the Alexias, I found the sound to be one of the most unforced natural ones ever at a demo.
Bonzo says Led Zep was epic on the Animas, I found the AC/DC when I went back truly appalling.
Simon says the Cessaros made the strings sound alien, I found it a most exhilerating presentation, sounded very realistic to me.
I found the LV's truly disjointed, Morricab says it was as holistic as the real thing.

I guess as long as we all have cash to spend, 100 guys will end up w/100 systems, and very little consensus will be had.

 

[Simone Leroy]

Gosh, we really ALL hear things TOTALLY differently.
HifiClube review says the Ypsilon transport/dac/amps sounded "electronic" on the Alexias, I found the sound to be one of the most unforced natural ones ever at a demo.
Bonzo says Led Zep was epic on the Animas, I found the AC/DC when I went back truly appalling.
Simon says the Cessaros made the strings sound alien, I found it a most exhilerating presentation, sounded very realistic to me.
I found the LV's truly disjointed, Morricab says it was as holistic as the real thing.

I guess as long as we all have cash to spend, 100 guys will end up w/100 systems, and very little consensus will be had.

Spirit You Are right! Here there is the beauty of this hobby! Anyone enjoys different ssystems because anyone has different testes and different "ears"!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Gosh, we really ALL hear things TOTALLY differently.

. . .

I guess as long as we all have cash to spend, 100 guys will end up w/100 systems, and very little consensus will be had.

This is true! But we don't have to be quite that nihilistic. (I don't think 100 guys would end up with 100 different systems.)

If 10 people listen to the same system I don't think there would be 10 different opinions as to the sound of that system. I think there would be two or three or four differing views around which people would coalesce.