New power supply makes sense since ATi has expertise and years of experience re power supplies.
This is one area where I was told ATI definitely intended to improve Theta's amps.
So now the upgrade is scheduled for December. Mebbe we're getting there?
Yes. It is definitely moving forward. Another,"tell" is that the new power supply will not respond to the "old" RS232 codes in my Pronto Pro file. There is a new operating system for the Casablanca HD. The new power supply will require that to work with RS232 as per email from Carl. There were a lot of complaints about the protocol that Theta used for RS232. I hate to have to rework my entire file which it appears I will have to do. Perhaps the result will be a better operating system.
The thing about build quality as I gather you define it -- no op amps, volume control that isn't a resistor ladder, etc. -- is that I don't think one can make a judgement based on it. A guess at best, but it's all case-by-case, component-by-component -- and particularly as things like op amps improve, it's important to be pragmatic not dogmatic, i.e. not judge on such things.
BTW, I use a separate DAC through a ARC Ref 5 for 2 ch. -- this is less a comment on the Classe than on the constantly changing/frustrating nature of processors. Used to think doing everything in one box was the ideal, now see the concept as an albatross.
I believe it is an indication. Speak with ARC about the REF 5, no op-amps. I do not see op-amps used in any of the "top" two channel analog pre-amps, not one. I spent several days listening to the Classe. I agree, it is a very good surround processor. Op-amps have come a long ways if it is any indication. Still... Charles Hansen of Ayre says it is the op-amps for volume control limiting the sound quality of surround processor,well most of them. I believe him.
I had been told that there would be a new operating system. What I could never determine or get a definite answer to was whether the RS232 protocol would change. It most certainly has. Also, Theta was kind enough to install the new power supply for the owner of the Casablanca,no charge.
A few years back, a wanted to know what parts were being used in 2 channel pre-amps vs what the same companies were using for volume control in their surround processors. Classe for example touts the .01 tolerance film resistors in it's C-500 preamplifier. To reach a competitive price point, the SSP800 has to use lower cost volume control,op-amps. To build to same standard as a companies 2 channel preamplifiers result in a much higher price. I have spoken with Mcintosh, Classe,Bel Canto,Krell,Aragon,etc and been told the same. The only surround processors that I know for sure are built like 2 channel preamplifiers are Theta, the new Krell, and the Mark Levinson piece. This is one of the reasons I have kept my Casablanca. It is also why I feel it is worth upgrading.
Well, we'll see. I read Charles Hansen's comments too. A question would be, for me at least, is whether the benefits of a possibly better volume control play out in a worthwhile way for soundtracks. As I've separated my music path, I care less about an absolute SOTA processor. Unfortunately comparing processors side by side is nearly impossible. I also value UI perhaps a bit more than most in a processor, and the Classe's is a step up from most competitors.
This all said, I thought the the Theta was superior SQ-wise to the Meridian, Lexicon and Proceed units I had before it. I sold it not because of SQ, but because I lost confidence in Theta as a company -- they flat out lie, and I don't see any reason to believe they can be at all timely with the inevitably necessary software updates. Am happy to be wrong about the CBIII HD and hope it's a killer processor w/a great operating system.
Well I did see. I auditioned the Classe this past week over three days. I compared it to the Mcintosh MX150 and C500 preamp with Classe's new M600 monoblocks and the new Mcintosh MC452 amp. It was very good. I also tried it in a different location with the same Classe monoblocks. Speakers were B&W new 802 diamond in both location. In one location I also used a pair of Sonus Faber's flagship speakers. I am keeping my Casablanca with Xtreme dac! I have had the Mcintosh C500 and MX150 both in the same system as the Casablanca so know how it fares against them. Redbook was the only medium I used.
At some point ,former, Theta owners have to move on. What purpose does it serve to attack every Theta thread and you do not own or intend to own the product?
As for the op-amps, ask Classe or any of the other companies. Charles just said what all of the other companies practice too.
The first Theta CBIII with HDMI 1.4 is in the hands of the first consumer user:
Here are the new Retail Prices for the "Theta Digital Casablanca III HD, Music And Cinema Controller".
These machines are brand new from the factory but must be ordered through your dealer.
SPECIAL PROMOTIONAL PRICING ONLY:
JANUARY 6, 2011 TO APRIL 15, 2011
Preamplifier/Processor MSRP
Option 1. - Casablanca III HDMI
Two Xtreme D-2 four channel balanced D / A cards
includes a 4 input x 1 output HDMI 1.4 Video Switching Board
$19,995.00
Option 2. - Casablanca III HDMI
One Xtreme D-2 four channel balanced D / A card
One Premium four channel balanced D / A card
includes a 4 input x 1 output HDMI 1.4 Video Switching Board
$17,495.00
Option 3. - Casablanca III HDMI
Two Premium four channel balanced D / A cards
includes a 4 input x 1 output HDMI 1.4 Video Switching Board
$14,995.00
Upgrade From CB-III To CB-IIIHD
Includes new Power Supply and 4 input x 1 output HDMI 1.4 Video Switching Board,
as well as any and all other boards that require to be reworked to deliver Dolby Digital True HD
and DTS Master Audio etc.
$4,995
DACs
Add one Xtreme D-2 four channel balanced D / A card
to any of the above for 12 channel output or any upgrade
$2,497.50
Add one Premium four channel balanced D / A card
to any of the above for 12 channel output or any upgrade
$937.50
Special Trade-in Allowance
Casablance I or Casablanca II with DAC’s <$5,000.00>
Upon the prepaid return of any Casablanca I or II
with DAC’s to Theta Digital’s office in Montebello
An option NOT fully explained is, what happens to a CB-II that already has HDMI compatable DACS such as Extreme cards, that is returned for a CB-IIIHD upgrade?
This pricing may be $7,500-$8,500
AFTER APRIL 15th, 2011 UPGRADE PRICING WILL REVERT TO THE NORMAL PRICING
Lee, we have just such a situation with a customer who has a CB II that has an existing Extreme DAC. In talking to Carl & Jeff, they have decided on the following for these cases:
CB III Basic discounted $1250 to $7500;
All compatable DACs (Xtreme, Superior II, or Premium) can be transfered to the new CB III;
Trade in credit of $3000 for for the gutted CB II;
$4995 for CB III HD upgrade.
Since Theta won't be selling a full compliment of DACs with this deal, it seems to be a fair savings for CB II owners, and they get a brand new CB III HD. We are taking orders for the upgrades now with very fair pricing for Forum Members. Hope this info helps. Regards, Norm
You are most welcome to the information. It was of course originally supplied to me by my CB-IIIHD dealer Craig Shumer of Theatermax, who was actually directly involved in this pricing scheme to a great extent.
Now get back over there and update your post to add the pricing on a CB-II with HDMI compatable DACs supplied by Tyree he's workin for you guys too, trying to get you more information when it was discovered something was lacking.
My CB-III HD by the way is still working just fine, it's a most wonderful machine, better then I had ever expected and more then I even hoped for.
Givin the miniscle amount of bugs that have had to be dealt with and then were dealt with so swiftly, I
am just simply astonished they got it so right, almost right out of the box.
Big kudos to the Theta Design Team on this. They've just done some kind of special work on this project and deserve to be noticed and mentioned, it is afterall, their baby!
Please post some specific listening impressions of the upgrade. For example, I am told the bass is improved? Has anyone else noticed this? How has the bass improved, deeper, faster,etc?