Fantastic Vinyl machines.
I am impressed. I've never seen this combination before. I can think of other combinations. The Vivid arms are really made for this. In terms of design, Tidal and Phonolab are virtually talking to each other.
groovemaster
What turntables do you use? Pictures would be nice as well :-)
- Thread starter XV-1
- Start date
I am impressed. I've never seen this combination before. I can think of other combinations. The Vivid arms are really made for this. In terms of design, Tidal and Phonolab are virtually talking to each other.
groovemaster
and how are the differences in speed, flow, detail, all these are the real strengths of the Brinkmann 12.1, at least if it is paired with good matching cartridges.
I thourghly enjoyed my time with the Brinkmann 12.1 however I beieve the Kuzma 14" tonearm, being longer than many standard arms, offers several acoustic benefits. IMO the arm has a lower tracking error, which means it can more accurately trace the record grooves as they were cut, reducing distortion and improving the sound quality. I feel it offers a significant increase in detail and separation.
My preference for the Kuzma underscores the subjective nature of audio and the importance of matching components to one's personal listening tastes.
This week I had the opportunity to listen to the new PD-191A from Luxman in detail at home:
I'm in love...
atb, Tom
I'm in love...
atb, Tom
My Thorens TD124 Reference with Synchronous Papstmotor <not the Thorens asynchronous Papst> and Three phase powersupply .
No vibration the best way to drive a three-phase motor and very good speed stability because it's is synchronous motor.
The funny thing is that most of the old Pabst motor where made for use with 2 phases and a capacitor, adding a 3 phase give you better adjustability of speed, torque and vibration. To run optimally at 33.3, 45 and 78 without changing pulleys different motor capacitors are needed, or you can do it with a adjustable 3 phase motor supply,
Yes the so called Steinmetz drive solution because turntables always were used on mains supply, vibration measurements shows the 100 hz (50hz drive ) vibration clearly.The funny thing is that most of the old Pabst motor where made for use with 2 phases and a capacitor, adding a 3 phase give you better adjustability of speed, torque and vibration. To run optimally at 33.3, 45 and 78 without changing pulleys different motor capacitors are needed, or you can do it with a adjustable 3 phase motor supply,
With the 124 I use the mechanical speed change so no adjustment needed for the drive adjustment, small speed corrections are possible due stylus drag .
For a solution with one pulley diameter you need for every speed a optimal alignment for the phase shift circuit so 2 or three pcb needed not a easy solution but sound wise for me the preferred one analog not digital
Measurements between single and three-phase drive
Attachments
I added an external power supply to my Transrotor Gold Classic turntable around 15 years ago. I did because chief engineer of Transrotor recommended it to me when I was visiting their room in Munich.
Actually old Papst motors in many turntables are 2 phase AC motors. Normally phase is 90 degrees between coils. One coil is fed directly with 24VAC other is fed via a capacitor (around 15uf). Which means there is actually 1 phase and the second phase is produced by a capacitor lag. When an external power supply is added there doesn’t need for a capacitor anymore because external power supply is a two channel amplifier. Since it’s an amplifier it turns AC supplied from the wall to DC and use transistors to amplify sinus waveform created by the oscillator. The benefit of this approach beyond clean sinus waveform is output voltage, phase and frequency can be precisely set. When you change the speed frequency of the waveform is changed by the oscillator. AC motors lock on frequency and speed can only be changed by frequency. Voltage is responsible from torque.
After adding external power supply I noticed a decrease in vibration, heat and noise on the my turntable’s motor and sound became more relaxed. Additionally power cord of the external power supply dramatically change the sound.
I used to own a Thorens TD 124 for a while long time ago. AFAIK it’s motor is a 2 phase AC motor why do you need a 3 phase power supply?
Last edited:
The standard motor is the E50 a shaded pole motor which is a single phase motor.
Ok, but I did the upgrade to a Transrotor turntable which has a Papst motor similar to the one in the picture you shared. Actually when I checked the picture you shared on above post I can clearly see that it is a 2 phase motor from the writings over it. It is manufactured in April 1977 and if you want to run it direct from the wall you need to add a 0,5uf capacitor to delay the second phase. I can clearly see a red 0.47uf wima capacitor added to the circuit for this purpose which becomes redundant when 90 degrees two phase AC supplied by external power supply
I asked why 3 phase because almost always 3 phase motors come with external power supplies and we know that is not the case with Thorens TD124. I still wonder how a 3 phase power supply can be used with a 2 phase motor.
You may ask why 2 phase motor is used widely on turntables because it is easy to delay the second phase with a capacitor and it doesn’t have to be precise to drive the 90 degree 2 phase motor but 3 phase motors require precisely set 120 degree 3 phases and only a power supply can provide it from standard 1 phase AC household electricity.
There are a few different old Pabst motors with different windings and implementation of phases.
Of course but,
- Most of the Papst motors on old turntables are 90 degrees 2 pahse AC
- There is no need for a capacitor when 2 phases supplied externally
- Speed is easily and quickly changed and regulated with the help of the oscillator. There is no need for another board, capacitor or pulley.