Magico Fan-boy!

[MadFloyd]

I admit it. I am a fan of Magico. I have a deep amount of respect for this company.

I briefly owned a pair of V2's years ago. I thought they were very musical but the V2 wasn't full range and I didn't like treble (cymbals sounded 'wooden' rather than metalic compaired to my Wilson Sophia 2's). I love the midrange though!

I had heard the Q5's and Q3's a while back but had mixed feelings about them. I appreciated them greatly but knew they weren't for me - at least not based on hearing them play some rock music.

I have owned a few Wilsons - Sashas, Alexias and I still have the Sophia 2's in my home theater but experimented with Magico S5's some months back. It was eye opening.

Here are a few pics my listening room:





(the subs are not in use at the moment)

I think the S5's are eye candy as well - especially in person. The texture, shape and build quality are just top notch.

As you can see I have an irregular shaped room where no two walls are parallel and the room is not closed off. Music sounds just as good from in the kitchen as it does from the sweet spot. The S5's seem to do all types of music really well - I can enjoy rock/pop, classical, jazz and electronica. I really do feel like the S5's are just a window into whatever is feeding it and I love the bass from the sealed cabinets.

I can't tell you how often my jaw drops when listening and I thank my lucky stars for how lucky I am to have a system that sounds this good. Of course as an audiophile, I'm greedy and would still love to improve it (would love to get larger scale without cranking the volume for example), but most of the time I'm not thinking of this - I'm just enjoying the music.

 

[steve williams]

That is really pretty Floyd. Thanks for sharing

 

[Frank750]

Looks like the Xs preamp snuggled in the top shelf of your rack and not the XP30 you have listed in your signature.

How do you like it?

 

[PeterA]

Ahhh, A system with which I am quite familiar. Thanks Ian for posting. I think this Magico Owner's Circle sub forum may take a while to catch on. I like the photos as they really capture the atmosphere of the room. And even though I am very biased about your amp/speaker pairing (I own Mini 2 and Pass XA160.5) I have to agree that Magico/Pass sound very good together. I have an opinion on Frank's question about the XP30/XS comparison, but I will let Ian comment first.

Here are a couple of photographs which share a striking resemblance in both subject and perspective: turntable, Magico speakers, Pass mono blocks

 

[MadFloyd]

Looks like the Xs preamp snuggled in the top shelf of your rack and not the XP30 you have listed in your signature.

How do you like it?

I have had it in for an audition over the past month. I fully intended to buy it I prefer the XP-30 overall - at least in terms of synergy with the rest of my system. I adore the XS build quality, aesthetics and larger display SO much more than the XP-30 and I wanted it to blow me away sonically (if only so I could have a display that I could see from my listening chair). It does produce a larger soundstage with more upper frequency air along with deeper bass, but the midrange, as compared to the XP-30 is recessed (e.g. different tonal balance). Voices never sounded full (in terms of body) to me and because of that I heard more emphasis on sibilence.

That said, brass instruments e.g. sax sounded more organic through the XS and I feel the XP-30 is a little less refined - perhaps more 'raw'. The XS is a little softer (in a good way).

Obviously they're both great preamps and if I was finding my system a little too lush in the mid-range it would be the perfect preamp. But for its price you gotta absolutely love this thing and feel that you're sticking with it for the long term. I may try it again in the future (after making other changes to my system). I also am interested in the KXR Twenty, especially since it's 10k cheaper.

 

[Bruce B]

I also am interested in the KXR Twenty, especially since it's 10k cheaper.

You might want to read the new Stereophile where JA reviews the KXR Twenty and compares it to the XP-30.

 

[MadFloyd]

You might want to read the new Stereophile where JA reviews the KXR Twenty and compares it to the XP-30.

I did, that's why I am interested.

 

[KeithR]

Are those the black M Cast version? Beautiful space!

 

[BlueFox]

I admit it. I am a fan of Magico. I have a deep amount of respect for this company.

You aren't the only one.

I am sitting here and really enjoying the sound coming out of the S5s from my Bryston BDP-1, since I added a Shunyata Sigma Digital power cord to it this afternoon. The Sigma took the background noise floor even lower. You really have no idea about this phenomena until it is reduced, or gone.

Anyway, none of that matters if the speakers aren't up to the task, and I am happy to report the Magico S5s are sounding even better than when I got them in April. However, I have to admit that I have had some incidents with these speakers over the last few months, but Magico has stepped up and made things right.

As some may remember, in July I accidentally toasted the right S5 tweeter and mid-range by having the preamp at its maximum. Well, that was completely and totally my fault. Fortunately, Magico is 30 minutes up the road, so I took the speaker there, and they fixed it. Of course, it cost me $2k, but that's the price you pay for screwing up. At the time, Alon told me to keep an SPL meter handy to monitor the sound level as it can get really loud without you realizing just how high it is. Since then the highest I play these, and only occasionally, is in the low to mid 90s, with maybe a bounce into the upper 90s. This is measured 8' feet away in my chair. With the Pass XP-20 preamp this occurs with the volume in the 60s, while it was at 83 when I originally toasted the drivers.

After a month or so, I started noticing the sound didn't seem as balanced as before, with the left seeming more dominate. I tweaked the right volume a touch, and that bought the balance back. It still sounded great, but unbalanced. Then one night the right speaker sounded like crap. It turns out the midrange died. WTF! I knew I hadn't exceeded any capability of the speaker, but it broke.

So, I took it back to Magico, and they dissected the driver. They showed it to me, and said it appeared the driver banged against the magnet. Maybe it did, but I knew it wasn't from me. Alon said there was no other sign of abuse, and it was probably a manufacturing defect. So, they replaced it for free, and I was back in business.

Then in October I am listening to the stereo, and I notice the left side volume go down, then it would come back. After a while, it did that trick again. Now what I wondered. Finally, it went down again, but didn't come back. Now I have to shift the balance to the left, but even then it didn't sound quite right. At this point I started waiting for whatever is breaking to completely break so I could get it fixed. A week later I am listening to a new CD of chamber music that has a lot of ping type sounds, such as striking a triangle, and it was sounding dull. At that point I started to use the balance on the DAC to alternate between left and right, and I realized the tweeter on the left speaker wasn't working.

My first thought was this is just a continuation of the damage I caused in July. I figured that while the right tweeter broke, at the same time I probably weakened the left, and it finally failed. I ordered a tweeter from Magico, and replaced it a week later. No help. Same issue. Well, that sure was a waste of $800 I thought. However, Dave, the support manager, said they would refund me since that wasn't the problem.

On Tuesday I once again returned a speaker. It turns out this time a resistor on the cross-over cracked, and failed. Although I was ready to pay to fix this, Magico fixed it for no charge. Friday I picked up the speaker, and a check for $800. Now I am sitting here, and once again, am just amazed at how good these speakers sound.

I have had a bit of bad luck, but I hope that is all behind me now. I am also grateful Magico is right up the road. I have never bought used gear before buying the S5s, and never will again. It is my understanding the previous owner played vinyl through them, and they can't take that abuse from the pops, clicks, and rumble. Just kidding.

 

[steve williams]

I always thought the resistor would fail first thus protecting the driver

 

[andromedaaudio]

Strange story , apart from the resistor (no must imo) one of the reasons to Always put a capacitator in series with the tweeeter is to prevent DC going through it ,which will kill the tweeter , i cant see turning your preamp on max should cause the speaker problem a speaker should handle a bit of abuse , but maybe the pre is the problem , i would check the pre
The only tweeter i ever fried during play was the 20 mm diamond cone , far to fragile for my use .
The pops and ticks of analogue shoulds be handled with ease and should cause no damage , what magico " probably " does in the unit section is use a very thin flexible rubber surround to incrrease resolution , this also might take some of the excursion dampening away.

 

[MadFloyd]

Are those the black M Cast version? Beautiful space!

They are pewter actually.

Thanks, Keith.

 

[MadFloyd]

You aren't the only one.

I am sitting here and really enjoying the sound coming out of the S5s from my Bryston BDP-1, since I added a Shunyata Sigma Digital power cord to it this afternoon. The Sigma took the background noise floor even lower. You really have no idea about this phenomena until it is reduced, or gone.

Anyway, none of that matters if the speakers aren't up to the task, and I am happy to report the Magico S5s are sounding even better than when I got them in April. However, I have to admit that I have had some incidents with these speakers over the last few months, but Magico has stepped up and made things right.

As some may remember, in July I accidentally toasted the right S5 tweeter and mid-range by having the preamp at its maximum. Well, that was completely and totally my fault. Fortunately, Magico is 30 minutes up the road, so I took the speaker there, and they fixed it. Of course, it cost me $2k, but that's the price you pay for screwing up. At the time, Alon told me to keep an SPL meter handy to monitor the sound level as it can get really loud without you realizing just how high it is. Since then the highest I play these, and only occasionally, is in the low to mid 90s, with maybe a bounce into the upper 90s. This is measured 8' feet away in my chair. With the Pass XP-20 preamp this occurs with the volume in the 60s, while it was at 83 when I originally toasted the drivers.

After a month or so, I started noticing the sound didn't seem as balanced as before, with the left seeming more dominate. I tweaked the right volume a touch, and that bought the balance back. It still sounded great, but unbalanced. Then one night the right speaker sounded like crap. It turns out the midrange died. WTF! I knew I hadn't exceeded any capability of the speaker, but it broke.

So, I took it back to Magico, and they dissected the driver. They showed it to me, and said it appeared the driver banged against the magnet. Maybe it did, but I knew it wasn't from me. Alon said there was no other sign of abuse, and it was probably a manufacturing defect. So, they replaced it for free, and I was back in business.

Then in October I am listening to the stereo, and I notice the left side volume go down, then it would come back. After a while, it did that trick again. Now what I wondered. Finally, it went down again, but didn't come back. Now I have to shift the balance to the left, but even then it didn't sound quite right. At this point I started waiting for whatever is breaking to completely break so I could get it fixed. A week later I am listening to a new CD of chamber music that has a lot of ping type sounds, such as striking a triangle, and it was sounding dull. At that point I started to use the balance on the DAC to alternate between left and right, and I realized the tweeter on the left speaker wasn't working.

My first thought was this is just a continuation of the damage I caused in July. I figured that while the right tweeter broke, at the same time I probably weakened the left, and it finally failed. I ordered a tweeter from Magico, and replaced it a week later. No help. Same issue. Well, that sure was a waste of $800 I thought. However, Dave, the support manager, said they would refund me since that wasn't the problem.

On Tuesday I once again returned a speaker. It turns out this time a resistor on the cross-over cracked, and failed. Although I was ready to pay to fix this, Magico fixed it for no charge. Friday I picked up the speaker, and a check for $800. Now I am sitting here, and once again, am just amazed at how good these speakers sound.

I have had a bit of bad luck, but I hope that is all behind me now. I am also grateful Magico is right up the road. I have never bought used gear before buying the S5s, and never will again. It is my understanding the previous owner played vinyl through them, and they can't take that abuse from the pops, clicks, and rumble. Just kidding.

Wow, quite the story. I'm glad Magico gave you great support (and I'm not surprised by that at all). Now while you might live close, you still have to get the speaker out of your house and into a vehicle? How the heck did you manage that so casually? When I got my S5's it was a real challenge getting them into my house because of their unconventional shape (and weight of course).

I also thought Magico didn't use resistors (like Wilson does) because they affect the sonics.

 

[andromedaaudio]

By the way i forgot to mention nice room/system madfloyd
If one plays with a speaker for prolonged time with a broken tweeter the other one should /will not suffer from that , some speakerdesigns use also a cap in series for the mids ,usually from 3 way designs and up the S5 would be a 3 way (with the 2 woofers parallel or serial) so it is possible

 

[BlueFox]

Wow, quite the story. I'm glad Magico gave you great support (and I'm not surprised by that at all). Now while you might live close, you still have to get the speaker out of your house and into a vehicle? How the heck did you manage that so casually? When I got my S5's it was a real challenge getting them into my house because of their unconventional shape (and weight of course).

I also thought Magico didn't use resistors (like Wilson does) because they affect the sonics.

I don't know how the cross-overs are designed by either Magico or Wilson.

When I bought these I realized I would need help moving them. I bought a hand truck for moving them, but I still need someone's help to get them in and out of the crate. My friend, who has a truck, has provided the extra muscle needed for this exercise. The hardest part is getting it onto the truck's bed. We lift one end onto the tailgate, and then lift, and push, the other end. At Magico they use 4-5 guys to get it out and in the truck.

Of course, each time he helps I have buy gas, lunch, and his poker buy-in for that month. Fortunately, this month I won both his and my buy-in back.

 

[Frank750]

I have had it in for an audition over the past month. I fully intended to buy it I prefer the XP-30 overall - at least in terms of synergy with the rest of my system. I adore the XS build quality, aesthetics and larger display SO much more than the XP-30 and I wanted it to blow me away sonically (if only so I could have a display that I could see from my listening chair). It does produce a larger soundstage with more upper frequency air along with deeper bass, but the midrange, as compared to the XP-30 is recessed (e.g. different tonal balance). Voices never sounded full (in terms of body) to me and because of that I heard more emphasis on sibilence.

That said, brass instruments e.g. sax sounded more organic through the XS and I feel the XP-30 is a little less refined - perhaps more 'raw'. The XS is a little softer (in a good way).

Obviously they're both great preamps and if I was finding my system a little too lush in the mid-range it would be the perfect preamp. But for its price you gotta absolutely love this thing and feel that you're sticking with it for the long term. I may try it again in the future (after making other changes to my system). I also am interested in the KXR Twenty, especially since it's 10k cheaper.

I was just gonna let it go but I guess in the end I can't. I know we all hear differently but if you're hearing a recessed midrange with the Xs and voices that sound anything but glorious, especially when compared to the XP30, I would start searching your system for a root cause, because there's no way you're getting the best out of the Xs preamp. I had them both side by side for a couple of weeks and there was no comparison in every facet of playback.

Have I heard better? I think the ARC Ref 10 I had for a while might offer a little more than the Xs and I might still give it another try, but I could never ever see preferring the XP30 over the Xs. Now, if it's a matter of the $22k price difference and a question of value, that's another story all together.

I feel better now. Had to get that off my chest.

 

[MadFloyd]

I was just gonna let it go but I guess in the end I can't. I know we all hear differently but if you're hearing a recessed midrange with the Xs and voices that sound anything but glorious, especially when compared to the XP30, I would start searching your system for a root cause, because there's no way you're getting the best out of the Xs preamp. I had them both side by side for a couple of weeks and there was no comparison in every facet of playback.

Have I heard better? I think the ARC Ref 10 I had for a while might offer a little more than the Xs and I might still give it another try, but I could never ever see preferring the XP30 over the Xs. Now, if it's a matter of the $22k price difference and a question of value, that's another story all together.

I feel better now. Had to get that off my chest.

I feel better too. I knew you were sitting there shaking your head.

I have a feeling that the XP-30 has more lower midrange energy than many preamps. It certainly had more than my XP-10 or a friend's XP-20... and more than the Ayre KXR (which was VERY lean by comparison). It's very possible that I just 'need' the extra lower mids in my room (with my gear). There is no question in my mind that the 30 has more energy in this region than the XS (which I think is more linear).

I did try messing with speaker placement and different cables, but couldn't get voices to sound as natural as the 30. Maybe there's just a suckout in my room. What was I to do at this point? There's no going back from the XS (trying to make it work to only sell it later would be disastrous).

I had two other audiophiles listen with me as we compared. I think we all know the XS is 'better' and it's not just a question of bang-for-the-buck but synergy.

I have another upgrade in mind that may change my system enough that I try the XS again. It's hard going back to the XP-30's display.

 

[PeterA]

I was just gonna let it go but I guess in the end I can't. I know we all hear differently but if you're hearing a recessed midrange with the Xs and voices that sound anything but glorious, especially when compared to the XP30, I would start searching your system for a root cause, because there's no way you're getting the best out of the Xs preamp. I had them both side by side for a couple of weeks and there was no comparison in every facet of playback.

Have I heard better? I think the ARC Ref 10 I had for a while might offer a little more than the Xs and I might still give it another try, but I could never ever see preferring the XP30 over the Xs. Now, if it's a matter of the $22k price difference and a question of value, that's another story all together.

I feel better now. Had to get that off my chest.

Interesting comments, Frank. I spent an afternoon comparing the XP30 to the XS in Ian's system. The main difference that I heard was a shift in tonal balance. The XP30 seemed slightly warmer/richer/darker. There was an emphasis on the lower midrange while the XS seemed to have a more neutral tonal balance. It also sounded more transparent and slightly more extended. It seemed more open. I did not check for any difference in noise floor.

Granted, this was only a few hours of listening and I would love to have spent more time with it. When I returned home and listened to some of the same LPs on my system, I noticed that the overall tonal balance or character in my Pass/Magico system with the XP-20 seemed closer to the XS than to the XP-30. A year or so ago, I directly compared the 20 to the 30 in my system for about ten days and preferred the 30 for its richer, denser sound. But I have since played with tonearm adjustments, cartridges and I may now prefer a less warm sound, especially for more complex classical music. I'm sure the XS is much better than my XP-20, but I wonder if they share a more neutral tonal balance compared to the slightly warmer XP-30.

Have you compared the XP-20 to the XP-30? I agree that the value of a $38,000 pre amp is something only the owner can contemplate.

I'm also interested in your comment about the Ref 10. How does it compare to the XS, and have you heard the new Ayre Twenty?

 

[Frank750]

I can't imagine a richer, denser reproduction than the Xs provides but then again, it may be system dependent. The Xs without a doubt provides detail that the XP30 can only dream about. Front to back, left to right staging and layering of the musical presentation. Dynamics are not even close. In my opinion, and my opinion usually isn't worth much, just ask my girlfriend, but there's no decision to be made between the two unless money is an issue.

I did have the XP20 along with the XP30 for a while. I thought the 30 did everything a bit better than the 20. I don't necessarily think of richer and denser equating to warmer but it might just be semantics. In any case, the 30 has a richer sound, better staging, better midrange and better bass than the 20, IMO of course.

I want to listen to the ARC Ref 10 again because I was blown away when I had it. My memory of it in comparison to the Xs though is unfairly slanted to the Ref10 because I also had the Ref 10 Phono in my system with the Ref 10 pre and have only listened to the Xs with the XP25. I thought the Xs Phono would have been out by now and an audition and comparison opportunity to the ARC pair would have been possible. At any rate, the Ref 10 Phono is so much better than the XP25 that my comparison of the Xs and Ref10 doesn't really mean much.

 

[MadFloyd]

I can't imagine a richer, denser reproduction than the Xs provides but then again, it may be system dependent. The Xs without a doubt provides detail that the XP30 can only dream about. Front to back, left to right staging and layering of the musical presentation. Dynamics are not even close. In my opinion, and my opinion usually isn't worth much, just ask my girlfriend, but there's no decision to be made between the two unless money is an issue.

I did have the XP20 along with the XP30 for a while. I thought the 30 did everything a bit better than the 20. I don't necessarily think of richer and denser equating to warmer but it might just be semantics. In any case, the 30 has a richer sound, better staging, better midrange and better bass than the 20, IMO of course.

I want to listen to the ARC Ref 10 again because I was blown away when I had it. My memory of it in comparison to the Xs though is unfairly slanted to the Ref10 because I also had the Ref 10 Phono in my system with the Ref 10 pre and have only listened to the Xs with the XP25. I thought the Xs Phono would have been out by now and an audition and comparison opportunity to the ARC pair would have been possible. At any rate, the Ref 10 Phono is so much better than the XP25 that my comparison of the Xs and Ref10 doesn't really mean much.

Perhaps your Sonus Faber speakers are more warm than my Magicos? I totally agree that the soundstage on the XS was fantastic and I did hear things that I didn't notice on the XP-30 (and had to specifically listen for to hear). An example of this was some subtle double tracking of rhythm guitars that sounded like it was only coming from the right channel on the XP-30 (but on the XS was clearly doubled in the left). Yeah, I'm feeling bad because I so wanted to take the system to a higher level.

I'm amazed you could consider the ARC if you like the Pass. Totally different beast. One colored, one not...