Anyone Understand Design Approach of Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson, etc., to have High Sensitivity?

[adrianywu]

I am curious - what were exactly these Magico's that only sounded good with amplifiers that cost 3 to 4 times ?

My friend has the S5MkII. He has a Gryphon integrated amp, but he is not happy with the combination. He feels the dynamics are restricted and the soundstage collapses with complex and dynamic material. One dealer recommended Constellation monoblocks, which are 6 figure amps. The other recommended a stereo amp from YS Sound of Japan, which is even more expensive ! Granted, both sounded good. I am convinced the speakers can sound good with something less pricey, so I will try and arrange home auditions with Bryston and Parasound.

 

[wisnon]

Not many Swiss speaker brands but both Stenheim and Piega use aluminium enclosures. I've heard the Piega Coax 711 (alarmingly good) but not Stenheim.

Sensitivities of both brands are in the low-mid 90s so not particularly high but higher than most box enclosure designs and suitable for tube amps, even some SETs. If the cone needs to move a smaller distance to produce high volumes of sound, this is achieved in the sweet spot in the driver's voice coil rather than it being extended to where the driver is working hard to achieve this required volume (well it's a story I've read!), so these speakers should sound better. However far more quality is attributed to system design and drivers chosen.

Goldmund speakers too, and I think Klandgwerk as well..
I have heard Stenheims with Absolare amps. IIRC, the amps were working at 10% of rated power and the volume was pretty loud. We did have a live acoustic performance to compare to. It was a lovely event...pity I could not stay longer as I had a 2 hour drive back home on a weeknight.

 

[wisnon]

Well, I have listened to them in a show and shop demos and they sounded quite decent, but I had no experience with the matching components.

A pity audiophiles go on bashing so easily. Why not simply saying it did not match their preferences and give us some details on why?

To get an idea of the people behind Stenheim we can read this interview with their CEO , Jean Pascal Panchard https://www.live.stenheim.com/english/issue7 . The kind of person I would love to have in WBF, but I doubt that he will feel tempted to participate in this forum. BTW, the Stenheim team comes from Goldmund. They are known to voice their speakers with DartZeel and Nagra.

Yep, the original design team was ex-Goldmund.

 

[wisnon]

Stenheim seems to be a new, breakout brand and is uniquely positioned to appeal to those who want modern audiophile sound in a handsome box AND to those audiophiles who want the "emotion of tubes", especially SETs, due to their high sensitivity.

Anyone understand what Stenheim is doing differently design-wise from the Magicos, YGs, and Wilsons, three of the most popular brands today, yet whose speakers do not work well with most tube amps (unless one doesn't mind diminished dynamics and a syrupy sound)?

Not so new! I heard the top top ones years ago with Absolare amps. Here is the write-up:

A visit with the Stenheim Reference Statement

Hi-Fi news, gear reviews, and interviews

parttimeaudiophile.com

 

[microstrip]

My friend has the S5MkII. He has a Gryphon integrated amp, but he is not happy with the combination. He feels the dynamics are restricted and the soundstage collapses with complex and dynamic material. One dealer recommended Constellation monoblocks, which are 6 figure amps. (...)

Why picking the 6 figure monoblocks? A good friend has Magico MPro with the Centaur II stereo and the system sounds great.

IMHO the S5mkII is not a difficult to pair speaker - I have listened to it playing very good with Audio Research and Devialet. They need power but are not excessively current hungry.

 

[adrianywu]

Why picking the 6 figure monoblocks? A good friend has Magico MPro with the Centaur II stereo and the system sounds great.

IMHO the S5mkII is not a difficult to pair speaker - I have listened to it playing very good with Audio Research and Devialet. They need power but are not excessively current hungry.

Yes, those were just what the dealers recommended and set up for the demo. That's why I told my friend to be patient, wait until his music room is ready, and then arrange some home demos. I am sure there are many other sanely priced amps that work well with the speakers. Somehow, the dealers seem to think that spending $100,000 on an amplifier is peanuts, or I guess they think my friend is rich or something. I find it a bit incredulous that they recommend amplifiers that cost multiple times the cost of the speakers.

 

[benito]

Yes, those were just what the dealers recommended and set up for the demo. That's why I told my friend to be patient, wait until his music room is ready, and then arrange some home demos. I am sure there are many other sanely priced amps that work well with the speakers. Somehow, the dealers seem to think that spending $100,000 on an amplifier is peanuts, or I guess they think my friend is rich or something. I find it a bit incredulous that they recommend amplifiers that cost multiple times the cost of the speakers.

Sure that a good integrated can do the job for less money

 

[Solypsa]

Have you or your friend tried the s1400 / hs1400 from mc2? I am not saying its the ultimate but if there is an amp to drive a difficult load well....

 

[adrianywu]

Have you or your friend tried the s1400 / hs1400 from mc2? I am not saying its the ultimate but if there is an amp to drive a difficult load well....

Thanks for the suggestion. They don't seem to have a distributor in Hong Kong. The trouble is, my friend seems to be only interested in products recommended by magazine reviewers.

 

[exupgh12]

My friend has the S5MkII. He has a Gryphon integrated amp, but he is not happy with the combination. He feels the dynamics are restricted and the soundstage collapses with complex and dynamic material. One dealer recommended Constellation monoblocks, which are 6 figure amps. The other recommended a stereo amp from YS Sound of Japan, which is even more expensive ! Granted, both sounded good. I am convinced the speakers can sound good with something less pricey, so I will try and arrange home auditions with Bryston and Parasound.

if your friend still looking for amplification for his S5MK2, i would suggest him Luxman M900u X2 monoblocks (with C900u Preamp if he can), those amps are doing justice to what Magico speakers are able to and are still considered "reasonably priced in this hobby.

FLAX 2020 Recap, plus Magico M6 Speakers, Luxman C-900u Amplifier and M-900u Monoblock Amps, Von Schweikert Ultra 11 Speakers, VAC Statement Electronics, MBL 101e MK II Loudspeakers, Avid Analog Front End, Critical Mass Racks, Børresen 01 Speakers

This marks the end of our Florida Audio Expo 2020 coverage, but before I wrap things up, I'd like to mention a few more standout rooms with super systems.

www.stereophile.com

 

[Solypsa]

Thanks for the suggestion. They don't seem to have a distributor in Hong Kong. The trouble is, my friend seems to be only interested in products recommended by magazine reviewers.

I understand. MC2 being a pro audio brand makes it an 'outlier' for sure. I figured it ( or something like it ) might be a good place holder while your friend finishes his listening room and prepares to spend 10x to 20x more

Interestingly on the MC2 website they show an hs1400 version for 'China only' that appears to have passive cooling versus the fans. ( The fans have been a topic of diy modding to reduce their slightly audible physical noise impact on the s1400...not sure if this is addressed in the hs1400 which is being marketed for home use but looks identical to the s1400 in most ways...)

 

[bonzo75]

Steinheim sounds fine on headroom driven by absolare integrated. The tiger lilies song is nice too. The integrated is 845, hybrid 200w

 

[DasguteOhr]

Steinheim sounds fine on headroom driven by absolare integrated. The tiger lilies song is nice too

The music doesn't come out of the system, the playback time of the cd player is always the same, and the turntable has suddenly disappeared 2.43 min ... strange

 

[Al M.]

The music doesn't come out of the system, the playback time of the cd player is always the same, and the turntable has suddenly disappeared 2.43 min ... strange

Excellent observations, TheGoodEar. BTW, the turntable makes a mysterious disappearance/reappearance between around 0:30 and 0:40 as well.

In any case, the video sounds way too good for a system video. It sounds indeed like a direct recording without intermediate system replay.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Excellent observations, TheGoodEar. BTW, the turntable makes a mysterious disappearance/reappearance between around 0:30 and 0:40 as well.

In any case, the video sounds way too good for a system video. It sounds indeed like a direct recording without intermediate system replay.

Anyone Understand Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson.​

Here s the answer

Ps did you notice the enourmous SUB in the corner as well

 

[christoph]

@adrianywu Your speakers are interesting...if you are inclined to share more about the build please do so!

Yes, please!!

 

[christoph]

Pretty simple really. I designed them with the philosophy of maximum sensitivity, no passive crossover and time alignment. The mid-range rectangular wood horns and the bass reflex cabs were built by a craftsman in Japan who has since retired. The horn has a cut off of 400Hz and an exponential expansion. I use field coil drivers from Classic Audio of Michigan. For the tweeters, I try to avoid metal diaphragms. I started with a pair of EV T350, and changed to the Acapella ion tweeters about 6 years ago. This made the biggest improvement in my system so far. It must be heard to be believed. These weightless tweeters are so fast that only field coil drivers can keep up. I cross over the tweeters at 7K, the woofers at 500hz. I use an Accuphase F25 analogue three way crossover. The tweeters and midranges are physically time aligned using REW software.

Pretty please with sugar on top, open a dedicated thread for your wonderful and extremely interesting speakers
I'm very confident that there are far more people than myself who are VERY interested in your speakers

 

[christoph]

My friend has the S5MkII. He has a Gryphon integrated amp, but he is not happy with the combination. He feels the dynamics are restricted and the soundstage collapses with complex and dynamic material.

At least he hears the shortcomings
Is it the smaller Gryphon integrated?
Maybe the bigger integrated Gryphon would already suffice?

Why not try the Lamm M1.x hybrid monos? They can be found second hand for really modest money, compared to other stuff
I would prefer the Lamm hybrids to any Bryston any day
@PeterA quite liked the Lamms when he still had his Magicos

 

[christoph]

Thanks for the suggestion. They don't seem to have a distributor in Hong Kong. The trouble is, my friend seems to be only interested in products recommended by magazine reviewers.

Tell your friend our very own @tima liked the Lamm hybrids and wrote a wonderful review on them

 

[microstrip]

(...) It sounds indeed like a direct recording without intermediate system replay.

Fortunately ...

Anyway, the main conclusion of this thread seems to be that Steinheim are not high efficiency, being not different from many other box speaker is this aspect and WBF members have different preferences.