Apogee Full range

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for that very interesting review! Is there anyone in the USA who specializes in reconditioning Apogees?

 

[spiritofmusic]

True Sound Works in Minden, and Music Technology Inc

 

[bonzo75]

I need to listen to a well set up Dali Megaline with subs to decide between that and Omega at my budget and room size. I don't think Amphi and Full range are going to be possible in my room, and Advance 7 too expensive, unless you buy it, Spirit, and sell it to me 5 years later when you want to upgrade to Zu Ultra High Definition 7

 

[LL21]

Great stuff and thanks for staring this thread...need to hear "new" Apogees, rebuilt Full Ranges and Audio Analysis

 

[flyer]

Great stuff and thanks for staring this thread...need to hear "new" Apogees, rebuilt Full Ranges and Audio Analysis

i hope to be able to demo the AA omega in a month or two with the Tenor audio and the SMT wings. If that won't swing and work, nothing else will!

Recently i installed two SMT s-wings at a happy owner of AA epsilon planars and the effect of these were impressive. simply put, due to the unique power response features of planars, the effect of the wings was the biggest i ever heard (mostly with cone speakers that is): it transformed the soundstage substantially giving a lot of focus and letting the stage widen to beyond the speakers whereas before the image was like 'locked up' between the ribbons... and the best thing is that it didn't come at the expense of loss of density or timbre! A testimonial of that owner can be read here: https://www.facebook.com/audiorefinement/?fref=nf

 

[bonzo75]

i hope to be able to demo the AA omega in a month or two with the Tenor audio and the SMT wings. If that won't swing and work, nothing else will!

Recently i installed two SMT s-wings at a happy owner of AA epsilon planars and the effect of these were impressive. simply put, due to the unique power response features of planars, the effect of the wings was the biggest i ever heard (mostly with cone speakers that is): it transformed the soundstage substantially giving a lot of focus and letting the stage widen to beyond the speakers whereas before the image was like 'locked up' between the ribbons... and the best thing is that it didn't come at the expense of loss of density or timbre! A testimonial of that owner can be read here: https://www.facebook.com/audiorefinement/?fref=nf

Ron heard them at 60w SET amps, which I think had them underpowered. I have heard them with 120 SET and 220w hybrid. Yours 350w hybrid will be the ultimate. They should thunder on that power and be very full sounding. From what I saw at yours of the SMT, I am sure the soundstage will be better. What I am waiting to check is how the SMT do behind the panel, as so far I have not been a fan of anything behind the panels except for a naked wall, so it will be interesting how the SMT function in that position.

 

[LL21]

I need to listen to a well set up Dali Megaline with subs to decide between that and Omega at my budget and room size. I don't think Amphi and Full range are going to be possible in my room, and Advance 7 too expensive, unless you buy it, Spirit, and sell it to me 5 years later when you want to upgrade to Zu Ultra High Definition 7

Didn't Albert Porter of Audiogon fame have Dali Megalines for YEARS...and then only in the last 2 years, end up with the big Focal Grande Utopia EMs which i [thought] he felt had finally shown him a cone speaker that could surpass what the Dali's had done so well for him for so many years? Not to derail...just that you might ping Albert a note and see what other thoughts he might have, since i think he lived with the Dali's for a long time.

 

[Vincent Kars]

There is a guy in Australia who own the brand name today and produces new panels: http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/

 

[bonzo75]

Didn't Albert Porter of Audiogon fame have Dali Megalines for YEARS...and then only in the last 2 years, end up with the big Focal Grande Utopia EMs which i [thought] he felt had finally shown him a cone speaker that could surpass what the Dali's had done so well for him for so many years? Not to derail...just that you might ping Albert a note and see what other thoughts he might have, since i think he lived with the Dali's for a long time.

Hi I have discussed this with Albert. A year back at least he said his Focals weren't sounding as good as the Dalis - but he was determined to make them sound better. He believes in working, modding a speaker over 5 - 6 years to develop it. Anyway the Megaline used price is 10 - 15k USD. It needs an extra amp. Thing is with Dali Megalines I can replicate Marty's system but with ribbons instead of soft domes.

 

[bonzo75]

There is a guy in Australia who own the brand name today and produces new panels: http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/

Hi yes, the ribbons on the Apogee I heard were made by him. The Advance 7 is made entirely by him

 

[spiritofmusic]

Been in contact w/User211 who runs Graz-restored Duetta Signature "Interstellars", and the impression I'm getting is that the bass in particular is very strong for domestically-acceptable panels.
I'm really unsure what $60k will bring to the party beyond heroically-constructed surrounds.
Bonzo, $60k will equate to £50k when delivery/taxes taken into account, and this is the region that a new pair of AG Trios/B'horns will cost.
Are you swinging now twds ribbons/magnets, and away from horns?

 

[bonzo75]

Been in contact w/User211 who runs Graz-restored Duetta Signature "Interstellars", and the impression I'm getting is that the bass in particular is very strong for domestically-acceptable panels.
I'm really unsure what $60k will bring to the party beyond heroically-constructed surrounds.
Bonzo, $60k will equate to £50k when delivery/taxes taken into account, and this is the region that a new pair of AG Trios/B'horns will cost.
Are you swinging now twds ribbons/magnets, and away from horns?

I think it will be 40k in the UK, but the pricing is not defined yet you can chat with Jon when it comes over.

No I still prefer Trios with bass horns more, but I think it's ridiculous to buy that big a room for myself in Central London + a speaker that price when I can divert some money for a buy-to-let. Advance 7 will require less space. User 211 (Justin) loves trios. His room is too tiny for trios.

That said, tone of ribbon better than trios. Dude an used Omega, non-modded, is 4k GBP, and this speaker is my second favorite after trios with bass horns and WE 16A, with vocals, violin, and piano probably better than trio. Trio better for overall orchestral scale and imaging and transients

I think I will just get Omega/Dali, and a decade or so later, add a WE 16A on the long wall

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm in deep conversation w/User211, and hope to convince him to let me have a listen to his Graz Duetta Signature Interstellars, to get an idea of the "family" sound esp wrt AA Omegas, which I'm planning to hear soon as well.
The q will then be, if I really "get" the presentation, do I settle for a vamped up Graz Duetta Signature w/Jon, or go for the no holds barred Advance 7.
In reality, my final spkr choice is likely to preclude Amphytrons, Liszts and Trios/B'horns (predicted room too small/out of my price range), but include new Zu Experiences flagships, AA Omegas w/Nat Transmitters, AG Duo Mezzos, and Graz Duetta Signatures/Advance 7s.

 

[Zero000]

Money versus hi-fi performance is very questionable.

Marc I think we both need to hear Advance 7 before making any judgements, but I take your point. Interstella is extremely rigid and well made as it is. Also, the construction quality is much better than Analysis Omega and as soon as you see both in the flesh you will know absolutely what I mean.

NAT Transmitters plus Omegas do sound great. I did consider getting a pair of Transmitters - should get Peter around with some someday he isn't far away at all. Coax him into bringing a pair over and we'll see how well they work on the Apogees, then use the same on the Omegas.

Really might be worth giving him a call he might be up for it!!!! I suspect he'd be interested to hear the Interstellas.

 

[bonzo75]

I agree about construction quality. Justin's speakers feel like they have been bolted into the ground. Try moving them.

 

[Argonaut]

Hmmmm, I feel that the 7's would need to show a fully rebuilt 'vintage' Apogee or the 'Interstellar's' a very clean pair of heals in order to justify the not inconsiderable price differential.

 

[LL21]

This thread is in full swing...but may i just ask for a cheat sheet here of all the various different Apogee-like options:

- Original Apogee - DIY the thing back into mint condition (Full Range, Diva, Scintilla, etc)
- Graz - UK based company who reconditions Apogees but also builds their own?
- True Sound Works - US Based reconditioner of Apogees
- Audio Analysis - brand new, new design
- Apogee (new company) - Aussie based company

Is this about right? Am i missing people/manufacturers/specialists along the way?

 

[bonzo75]

This thread is in full swing...but may i just ask for a cheat sheet here of all the various different Apogee-like options:

- Original Apogee - DIY the thing back into mint condition (Full Range, Diva, Scintilla, etc)
- Graz - UK based company who reconditions Apogees but also builds their own?
- True Sound Works - US Based reconditioner of Apogees
- Audio Analysis - brand new, new design
- Apogee (new company) - Aussie based company

Is this about right? Am i missing people/manufacturers/specialists along the way?

Lloyd, no. Some corrections. Graz is the guy in Australia who is represented by his dealers who are also restorers. Jon Oke in the UK is a restorer. Henk in Netherland is a restorer. The full range I heard was restored by Henk, with the ribbon built by Graz. Justin's Duetta Sig is restored by Jon Oke.

The Advance 7 is a new Graz Apogee design, built by Graz. The Definitives were a Graz design, around 11 years old, 100 db sensitivity, and cost $100k. Within a couple of years he expects to build a Advance 7 - Diva Definitive.

Graz is therefore the man behind resurrecting Apogee, and firing it from Australia, with his restorers keeping it going the world over.

Analysis Audio is a Greek speaker inspired by Apogees, but a bit different.

 

[Zero000]

Hmmmm, I feel that the 7's would need to show a fully rebuilt 'vintage' Apogee or the 'Interstellar's' a very clean pair of heals in order to justify the not inconsiderable price differential.

I think it is a great effort at making the best pair possible. It is extreme, extracting the very last ounce out of the basic design.

Of course diminishing returns will have set in. But that is the case with top of the market cars, boats, etc etc you name it.

The best is never cheap. And these, I think, will be the best planar magnetic speaker ever made given the size constraint.

Make no mistake I believe virtually every component used will be in some way, shape or form, better than my pair.

If you have the money, why mess around? Just get the best. If you don't, well, it is time for compromise.

But at the end of the day, who wants compromise?

It is Jon Oakey, I think you'll find

 

[Ron Resnick]

Also, the construction quality is much better than Analysis Omega and as soon as you see both in the flesh you will know absolutely what I mean.

Having now spent time with the Omega, and having seen the photo of the Graz Definitive and having talked to Graz about his materials selection, I think I already know what you mean! : )

Of course we pay a lot for "heroic" construction quality (I like that term, but I cannot remember if I have to credit Marc or Lloyd for it), and, as Bonzo points out, that robust implementation may or may not result in better sound quality in general, or versus the Analysis Audio speakers in particular.

Jon in Birmingham does not know what he is in for with this discerning crew!