WyWires was/is a good musical cable and Alex was/is a real pleasant gent. I still have a pair of his ic's but they are just shy of being on par with a pair of cryo'ed BPT silver ic's I've owned since I think 2006. These BPT ic's sat in the closet until I think 2015 when I had them cryo-treated via the full immersion method and I've been using them ever since. I think the BPT's retailed for about $325.
best cost no object, cables
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I have come to the conclusion that most aftermarket cables, interconnects etc. add something to the sound, but they also take away something as well. The stock power cords and I have pretty basic interconnects homemade for the most part sound like do not add anything to the sound and that they do not take anything away either. More so than most aftermarket cables I have used in the past.
It should be assumed or presumed that EVERYTHING takes away from the sound (input signal), including electrical objects such that the output signal is always percentages less than the input. The art is to take away less than the competitors.
Then again, there's always a few objects that add to the sound. But hopefully these are far and few between.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I once tried Interconnects, Speaker cables and Powercords from a manufacturer. Had them for about a month, so I felt they were fully broken-in. The total cost was $115k. I couldn't wait to get them out of here. Just didn't work for me. More $$$ is not always better...... I use Aluminata.. I'm satisfied.
The cables I tried? Transparent... custom made for my electronics....
The cables I tried? Transparent... custom made for my electronics....
I said most.
I had an epiphany years back when a friend in my listening group lives by this philosophy that the cables and power cords are just a scam. He was using Klipsch Cornwalls, and old Mc240, vintage McIntosh Pre and a Dual I think 1019 idler, 12 gauge speaker wire form home depot??? Basic and I mean basic interconnects. That system just blew away other friends systems costing many times the cost of his. It got me thinking let me tell ya.
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I find this logic defective. I certainly agree that money does not buy sound quality, and I certainly agree that a system costing a fraction of what another system costs can sound more like live music than the latter system.
But the subjective musical superiority of a less expensive system does not prove in any logical way the proposition that cables are a scam.
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You could say that about literally any piece of audio gear. People say it about amps, DACs, etc all the time.
I could put (and have put) my Crown Drivecore amp I got for $150 and use for woofers in place of any high-end amp and the result will still be just fine if not good in most cases.
I can build an entire system that will be very good for a small fraction of what people here typically spend. So what?
I think we need a subforum dedicated to logic, critical thinking, validity of arguments and philosophy. The world needs more of it.
I can relate to your story because the same thing happened in my own system. This is just one more example of basic cables and cords being the right decision in that system for that listener. And you happen to agree. I’m not so sure I would go as far as claiming the whole industry is a scam, but I’ve certainly heard instances we’re fancy power cords and cables make the system sound less natural. I don’t think it proves anything in a general sense.
Personally I would put the money towards a better source and electronics. Many buyers of the ultra expensive power cords and cables aren’t making trade-offs in terms of system budget. They just buy what they want. On the other hand, do people really pay retail for any of this stuff?
EDIT: I should clarify that I don’t think any old cheap cable will sound good in most systems. Cables and cords still need to be listened to and chosen carefully for a particular system. They just don’t need to be expensive. This is what is best forum not what is most expensive forum.
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Or a cheap amp, or a cheap DAC, or...
But audio systems are a system and if you ignore ANY part of it the results will be suboptimal. This forum is about finding OPTIMAL, not just "this seems pretty good! ".
Why would you ignore anything by using cheap cables , all speculation on your part afaik
This is what the cable market looks like to me , i ve seen to many cables come and go.
And all the demos at shows / dealers i have heard have not convinced me to " invest " in cables , mostly they try to solve certain systems problems with cables because they have not a clue how to solve it other wise .
I use Roland black line /studio cables , cheap excellent quality
This is what the cable market looks like to me , i ve seen to many cables come and go.
And all the demos at shows / dealers i have heard have not convinced me to " invest " in cables , mostly they try to solve certain systems problems with cables because they have not a clue how to solve it other wise .
I use Roland black line /studio cables , cheap excellent quality
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You should add to this list understanding the stereo physics and standard and the high-end. IMHO most people miss some of the points we are debating because they do not understand the technical limitations of simple stereo and the complexity of the sound reproduction illusion.
Mind boggling to me that in 2021 there are people on a high end forum like this one debating the value of audiophile cables. Every upgrade in cables I've made (from lamp cord, where I started over 40 years ago) has improved the sound of my system, in some cases dramatically. Power cables have made the biggest difference, interconnects the least but all have mattered. Not every "fancy" cable I tried resulted in an improvement - some were awful with my system, and the most expensive are not always the best although generally speaking more money buys better materials and assembly and more innovative design. The only way to find the best cables for your system is to listen and compare (as with other audio components), since cable performance is system dependent. This presupposes that one has learned what to listen for, which requires years of educating your ears by listening at audio shows, dealers, and to home systems. Currently using a mix of Hemingway Audio, Echole, Verastarr, and Townshend cables with great results. Audioquest (Sky), HiDiamond, Cardas Clear, Cerious, Harmonix, and Silent Source didn't work as well (although I have audiophile friends who love them) so I moved on from them.
Peter,
Yes, the examples of basic cables and cords being the right decision exist. However we should note they are statistically almost meaningless in the high-end blogosphere and here limited to a few systems that repeat the same story forever - and as far as I have read in systems or conditions that are not typical.
On the contrary I find enthusiastic and well documented reports on great systems with equipment I know well and music I appreciate describing adequately the effects of the dedicated expensive cables, fortunately telling me something else that they sound "natural".
Due to some temporary changes in the logistics of my listening room ( a nice way to say the cables were too short for the needed layout) for the last four weeks my system has been using the CC power cords and Mogami IC's and speaker wiring. The sound is surely enjoyable, but IMHO far from what I get with the Transparent Opus or the Cristal Dreamline cable looms, and doubtless less real for me.
Why just addressing the ultra expensive cables when addressing cables, ignoring the typical cables that most audiophiles buy? BTW, we do not ask people what they pay for their amplifiers, cartridges, old speakers or vintage turntables, why asking or making insinuations about the cables pricing?
I am addressing expensive cables because of the title of the thread. Ironically, the best cables for my current system are quite literally cost no object cables. They cost me nothing and came with the gear.
As I was going through cable and power cord experiments on my system thread, I described what the audiophile brands sounded like versus my more basic cabling and it was in terms beyond just whether or not they sounded natural. In general I found my former cables accentuated aspects of the sound and made them stick out and drew attention to themselves. That’s fine because many people like that sound. I was looking for a more balanced sound like what I hear live.
Regarding pricing, that’s a little off topic for this thread but I’ve heard many stories of people not paying full retail for cables in particular because of the margins. In fact I keep hearing more and more stories about people choosing components based on the “deals“ they are getting rather than absolute sound quality, but that is surely a conversation for another time.
Yes but this is the " whats best forum " , not the " what is the most expensive is the best forum" .
One of the things I've noticed about these cable discussions is that posters frequently talk about "audiophile brands" they've tried without specifying the brand and model - something they wouldn't do when posting about an amp, player, turntable, etc. Posters claiming that cables don't matter (and variations thereof) are particularly prone to doing this. Again, cable performance is system dependent, and the brands and models of cables you have tried therefore make a big difference. There is little to be learned from your experiences if you are not telling us specifically what cables you have tried.
MIT and Transparent , but it was 13 years ago.
600 euro interlinks 900 euro interlinks in that range with those big boxes with switches , also boxed transparent LS cable .
But you could argue my speakers at the time werent transparent enough as i heard no real difference
In the end i cut them up to look what was inside of the boxes damn those boxes are tough( cutting grinder)
I also made all kinds of interlinks / LS cables myself , couldnt hear much improvement
600 euro interlinks 900 euro interlinks in that range with those big boxes with switches , also boxed transparent LS cable .
But you could argue my speakers at the time werent transparent enough as i heard no real difference
In the end i cut them up to look what was inside of the boxes
damn those boxes are tough( cutting grinder)I also made all kinds of interlinks / LS cables myself , couldnt hear much improvement
So what does that tell us? 13 years ago you tried MIT and Transparent cables and cut open the cable boxes - what did you learn from cutting them open? You subsequently made your own cables and didn't hear much improvement - what is the relevance of that to a thread that started off asking what the best cost no object cables were?MIT and Transparent , but it was 13 years ago.
600 euro interlinks 900 euro interlinks in that range with those big boxes with switches , also boxed transparent LS cable .
But you could argue my speakers at the time werent transparent enough as i heard no real difference
In the end i cut them up to look what was inside of the boxes
I also made all kinds of interlinks / LS cables myself , couldnt hear much improvement
Sure you re right .
But what is the answer to the question " what are the best cost no object cables " then ?
I ve read nothing but vague claims based on this sounds good with this , this sounds good with that .
Where are the straight answers ??
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