I just tried the new Psvane Horizon in the Aries-Cerat Genus vs. ELROG's

[Synaxis]

I spent several hours last night trying a NEW tube from @PSVANE - the Horizon series in 845. I'm going to do a video on this as well but wanted to share the quick thoughts here.

I used the Aries Cerat Genus 845 integrated and the @Aries Cerat Helene DAC from @Believe High Fidelity going through the Tobain 12FH speakers. Speakers cables are Stealth Audio Cables V16-T Petite's.

It was a somewhat unfair test - I compared the Psvane to tubes costing 15x the price (the Elrog's I have here are $2K EACH and I have two of them. I believe Josh said these are the 284 versions).

I listened to the Genus with the Elrog tubes from Thomas Mayer. This was easily the golden standard and is frankly untouchable in performance. Tonally rich, dimension, air and body and full of emotion like I've never heard in my system before. It is easily "set for life" level of sound for me. But the tubes are $2K EACH. But my oh my what an untouchable level of performance worthy of the AC and Tobian gear. If you want the best sound, this is it.

Then I listened to the previous generation of Psvane 845 tubes which were about $250 for a pair. The sound collapsed. Yes it was OK and still the Genus sounded great - but it was not near the same level of the Elrog tubes and knowing what the Genus COULD sound like, it was tough to listen to the old series of tubes. But we are talking about $250 vs. $4000 in tubes.

Now came the new Horizon Psvane at about the same $250 price. This was a significant step up from the previous generation of Psvane tubes.

It had more dimension, air, body, tonality and texture to offer than the previous generation. It was noticeable and not a subtle difference. This tube in my system to my ear is quite an improvement over the other Psvane 845's I listened to.

Conclusion

Well done to Psvane. I was getting 60% of the Elrog performance at 1/15th the price with the new Horizon tubes!

Of course I wonder if they have a series up from this, and if they don't I hope they offer one that can bridge the gap even further. But WELL DONE to Psvane on this series of tubes.

Stay tuned as I'll be doing a video on this as well as trying them in the Viva audio Solista 845 amp.

 

[Kingrex]

They have the ACME for around $900 a tube last time I checked. I had a pair and they were very good. But they were redplating. Stupily I retured them and.kept some LinLai for about $600 each that are flat.
My Elrog are the best I have now. But I bet the ACME would beat them on some.levels head.to head. Like dynamics and push. Maybe top end sparkle. The Elrog is maybe more holigraphic and fresh air. Flowing.

 

[Argonaut]

Query … Do you have intelligences regarding the emission levels and health of the older manufacture Psvane valves ? As your description of them might also be indicative of a tired output valve .

 

[Synaxis]

They have the ACME for around $900 a tube last time I checked. I had a pair and they were very good. But they were redplating. Stupily I retured them and.kept some LinLai for about $600 each that are flat.
My Elrog are the best I have now. But I bet the ACME would beat them on some.levels head.to head. Like dynamics and push. Maybe top end sparkle. The Elrog is maybe more holigraphic and fresh air. Flowing.

I would love to be able to try the Acme version some time. If I do I'll be sure to update.

 

[Synaxis]

Query … Do you have intelligences regarding the emission levels and health of the older manufacture Psvane valves ? As your description of them might also be indicative of a tired output valve .

Hi - the original Psvane's here came with the Genus as a counterpoint to try vs. having to spend the money on ELROG's when it comes time to retube for those on a budget.

I do not know how much time is on those particular ones.

 

[Argonaut]

Hi - the original Psvane's here came with the Genus as a counterpoint to try vs. having to spend the money on ELROG's when it comes time to retube for those on a budget.

I do not know how much time is on those particular ones.

Sounds unlikely that they would have lost significant emission levels then .

 

[Kingrex]

I have some low $ Psvane also. It sucks. I also have 4 versions of the entry level.Shuguang. They are blass to.
If Shuguang has a Hidden Treasure version I bet.it would be good. I very much like the.Shiguang Hidden Treasure KT88. Great tube. A also had a set of shuguang entry level KT88. They sucked.

 

[Synaxis]

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for this great comparison!

What are the strengths of each tube?

Does the basic Psvane excel at clarity, precision and detail? And does the Thomas Mayer Elrog 845 excel at warmth and musicality and holography?

Or is that not the correct spectrum prism to understand the differences between these models of 845?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Cobra213 suggests that the basic Psvane 845 is "woozy-sounding" compared to the Thomas Mayer Elrog 845. I believe that Cobra213 finds the Elrog to be the more "objective" sounding tube.

Can you reconcile this report with what you heard in your comparisons?

 

[Synaxis]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for this great comparison!

What are the strengths of each tube?

Does the basic Psvane excel at clarity, precision and detail? And does the Thomas Mayer Elrog 845 excel at warmth and musicality and holography?

Or is that not the correct spectrum prism to understand the differences between these models of 845?

The new Horizon series does a great job at its price point. It is a huge step up from the previous @PSVANE tubes.

It offers more clarity without being brighter, more insight and a more textural midrange.

Where the Elrog tubes are better - at many, many, many times a factor in price - is more air and a richer more "you are there" sound. Also the Elrogs have more ebb and flow and dynamics. The Erlogs convey more emotional soul of the music.

If you have the money the Elrogs are a clear step up. But where as I felt the previous Psvane were too far a step back vs. the OEM Elrogs, I felt the new Horizon are so much better that for those not able/wanting to spend the money on Elrogs the Horizon is a decent replacement.

I will also go so far as to say this: I have tried the New Horizon 300B's on several tube amps here that use the previous gen Psvane. If you own these previous gen Psvane's you should immediately upgrade to the new Horizon's. I think they are a very nice step forward.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The new Horizon series does a great job at its price point. It is a huge step up from the previous @PSVANE tubes.

It offers more clarity without being brighter, more insight and a more textural midrange.

Where the Elrog tubes are better - at many, many, many times a factor in price - is more air and a richer more "you are there" sound. Also the Elrogs have more ebb and flow and dynamics. The Erlogs convey more emotional soul of the music.

If you have the money the Elrogs are a clear step up. But where as I felt the previous Psvane were too far a step back vs. the OEM Elrogs, I felt the new Horizon are so much better that for those not able/wanting to spend the money on Elrogs the Horizon is a decent replacement.

o the new Horizon's. I think they are a very nice step forward.

Thank you very much for this further information on the comparison, Michael!

 

[iaxel]

From what I know, Stavros tunes the Genus 845 with the ELROGs.

 

[Synaxis]

From what I know, Stavros tunes the Genus 845 with the ELROGs.

that is the factory tube they come with. They are great sounding tubes.

 

[Argonaut]

From what I know, Stavros tunes the Genus 845 with the ELROGs.

Just so …

 

[Synaxis]

Just so …

View attachment 145666

Those Elrog tubes do sound fantastic for sure.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Those Elrog tubes do sound fantastic for sure.

The Elrog 845 tubes are NOT $2000 Each, but 1850 Euros per MATCHED PAIR, with German 19% VAT included. That would make their price direct from their factory at 1555 Euros a PAIR plus shipping, plus whatever US Customs feels like charging at that moment (in my extensive experience often $0 for individuals), so around $875 EACH, or so. See the pricelist attached copied from the company's website.Unless of course the Germans have made an error in their listing...

 

[Synaxis]

The Elrog 845 tubes are NOT $2000 Each, but 1850 Euros per MATCHED PAIR, with German 19% VAT included. That would make their price direct from their factory at 1555 Euros a PAIR plus shipping, plus whatever US Customs feels like charging at that moment (in my extensive experience often $0 for individuals), so around $875 EACH, or so. See the pricelist attached copied from the company's website.Unless of course the Germans have made an error in their listing...View attachment 145839

Hi - you are correct. I must have misunderstood what the dealer told me. He may have meant each pair.

I'm being quoted a current price of $1,950 for the pair between the exchange rate (which is constantly changing so they round up the number to pad for the changes) shipping, customs, etc.

While they are fantastic tubes for sure, $2K is very steep.

The ratio I quoted them becomes the difference between $250 for the pair vs. $2,000. So it's about 60% of the perforce for about 1/9th the price.

 

[Mr. Analog]

Hi,

does anyone have any experience with the E series: Linlai Global Elite E-845? The Global Elite E-845 has a molybdenum anode. I was able to hear the comparison between “normal” and “molybdenum” with the two Elrogs (ER 845 and ER 284). The difference to the “better” (ER 284) was actually recognizable, not only for me - the surcharge aside.

That's why I asked myself what a Linlai Gloabl Elite E-845 (with molybdenum) will do - especially in comparison to a “normal” Elrog ER 845.

Regards Mr. Analog

 

[Audio Addict]

Hi - you are correct. I must have misunderstood what the dealer told me. He may have meant each pair.

I'm being quoted a current price of $1,950 for the pair between the exchange rate (which is constantly changing so they round up the number to pad for the changes) shipping, customs, etc.

While they are fantastic tubes for sure, $2K is very steep.

The ratio I quoted them becomes the difference between $250 for the pair vs. $2,000. So it's about 60% of the perforce for about 1/9th the price.

To justify the Elrog 845s, I would look at it a little different. I have invested $30K in the Genius so if I needed to replace them, the cost for this one part recommended by the manufacturer is only 7% and it puts the sound back to 100%. Wouldn't you look at it this way if your car needed a new major part. Would you say, it is okay to put the CAPA part make in China in your 2025 Corvette?