KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[Kozak170]

ITron is solid state, perhaps the best implementation of this, but it remains solid state.

why they have championed SS with their speakers I will never understand. Engineers mindset rather than listening perhaps??

IMO, the iTron is not the last word in solid state amps for AGs. More emotional and liquid SS amps like SIT4 and Bakoon are other smart options, of course, for those who still want to have SS with AGs but with SET-like warmth and tonal presentation.

However, if one doesn't care about pure liquidity and organic warmth and instead seeks extreme clarity and neutrality and as well as superior control and extremely low distortion (the advantages of current amp), the itron could be the best option for them.
I think it all comes down to preferences.

 

[Al M.]

I think it all comes down to preferences.

+1

Hifi is a very subjective and personal hobby.

 

[morricab]

IMO, the iTron is not the last word in solid state amps for AGs. More emotional and liquid SS amps like SIT4 and Bakoon are other smart options, of course, for those who still want to have SS with AGs but with SET-like warmth and tonal presentation.

However, if one doesn't care about pure liquidity and organic warmth and instead seeks extreme clarity and neutrality and as well as superior control and extremely low distortion (the advantages of current amp), the itron could be the best option for them.
I think it all comes down to preferences.

If you go to hear live unamplified music (assuming you do), which of the two descriptions of sound do you think it sounds like?

 

[Kozak170]

If you go to hear live unamplified music (assuming you do), which of the two descriptions of sound do you think it sounds like?

It depends on the type of live performance, for example for small acoustic concert such as jazz, vocal, opera or chamber music, attributes like "harmonic density" "organic warmth" and "intimacy" matter most but for rock concerts, speed and clear impact dominate, and for large symphony hall both clarity and weight are required. therefore, i'd choose Bakoon amp that uniquely combine both speed and harmonic density, and suits nearly all genres, especially if you care about emotional nuance, speed, and tone.

 

[Al M.]

It depends on the type of live performance, for example for small acoustic concert such as jazz, vocal, opera or chamber music, attributes like "harmonic density" "organic warmth" and "intimacy" matter most but for rock concerts, speed and clear impact dominate, and for large symphony hall both clarity and weight are required. therefore, i'd choose Bakoon amp that uniquely combine both speed and harmonic density, and suits nearly all genres, especially if you care about emotional nuance, speed, and tone.

It also depends on the venue how unamplified live music sounds.

Some 30+ years ago in The Netherlands I heard the same music (diverse works by Alfred Schnittke) played by the same musicians in two different concert halls. First up was the wood covered chamber music hall of Vredenburg in Utrecht. Very warm, wooden sound, incredible body in the lower midrange. A few days later, the same program with the same musicians in the stone covered hall of De Doelen, Rotterdam. Much brighter, lighter, more "transparent" sound, and really cool in character. Much less "harmonic density", too.

Hearing that brutal sonic contrast in unamplified live music was one of the most intense and unforgettable experiences in my life as an audiophile.

 

[bonzo75]

+1

Hifi is a very subjective and personal hobby.

Deep

 

[spiritofmusic]

Deep

I guess Al isn't going on Audio Science Review Forum anytime soon.

 

[nirodha]

Deep

It is so deep that most still don’t realize this and thus keeping this forum alive

 

[bonzo75]

It is so deep that most still don’t realize this and thus keeping this forum alive

Yes some people even like duos and Ongaku without the preamp

 

[morricab]

It depends on the type of live performance, for example for small acoustic concert such as jazz, vocal, opera or chamber music, attributes like "harmonic density" "organic warmth" and "intimacy" matter most but for rock concerts, speed and clear impact dominate, and for large symphony hall both clarity and weight are required. therefore, i'd choose Bakoon amp that uniquely combine both speed and harmonic density, and suits nearly all genres, especially if you care about emotional nuance, speed, and tone.

Please note I said live unamplified music. I said nothing about rock concerts.

 

[Kozak170]

Please note I said live unamplified music. I said nothing about rock concerts.

I know I added the rock concert example to say that some rare musical solid-state amplifiers like the Bakoon, which are really good at conveying the sensual and subtle characteristics of unamplified music, are no slouch at rock concerts either, but certainly amps that chase only resolution, agility, control and high DF and are soulless, definitely cannot convey the feeling of unamplified music to you.

 

[Kozak170]

I had really come to experience the Trios and they didn't disappoint! This is one of the finest audio systems I've ever heard. They were setup with the iTron again, but with CH preamp/dac. I was really concerned with how coherent they would be, but the setup really had no holes at all. It was just huge, dynamic, enjoyable sound with a transparency/resolution that I had not heard on AG previously. My only preference was for a little more liquidity and I feel that tubes are still my solution for AGs.

Keith never mentioned iTron. apologize if I missed, and how is this relevant to his thread, his expressed journey?

Incidentally, the founder of the ITron war was Keith.

 

[morricab]

It also depends on the venue how unamplified live music sounds.

Some 30+ years ago in The Netherlands I heard the same music (diverse works by Alfred Schnittke) played by the same musicians in two different concert halls. First up was the wood covered chamber music hall of Vredenburg in Utrecht. Very warm, wooden sound, incredible body in the lower midrange. A few days later, the same program with the same musicians in the stone covered hall of De Doelen, Rotterdam. Much brighter, lighter, more "transparent" sound, and really cool in character. Much less "harmonic density", too.

Hearing that brutal sonic contrast in unamplified live music was one of the most intense and unforgettable experiences in my life as an audiophile.

Sorry, it’s simply not the same sonically as going between AGs with good tubes and SS like AGs own amps. It’s not different by degrees it’s fundamentally a different sound character from room effects on live music.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Lol , will there then never be peace in the solid state - Tube battle.

 

[nirodha]

Lol , will there then never be peace in the solid state - Tube battle.

See post 3,802 and add: and ruled by big egos

 

[KeithR]

I actually know multiple AG owners who preferred various FirstWatt amps over any SET amp.

 

[KeithR]

Stenheim Reference Ultime 2

 

[2ndLiner]

Stenheim Reference Ultime 2

View attachment 153424

I heard Stenheim/JMF pre & amp w/Ideon DAC & streamer at Axpona 2024. I did not want to vacate the premises. I have a preference for tube components and use a tube DAC, tube pre, & tube amps yet I could easily live with that system. Great texture, tone, detail, dynamics!

 

[morricab]

I actually know multiple AG owners who preferred various FirstWatt amps over any SET amp.

Might sound good…haven’t heard a setup like that…not so many First Watt in Europe I guess…

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard the AG trio G3 s with I tron and tubes.
I think itron is more precise to the recording.
Tubes romantisize a bit but are not rhe last word in accuracy.
If i would go all out in spending the AG trios G3 are definitely an option