Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[Ron Resnick]

Acoustically-coupled cell phone recordings of high-end audio systems make no sense to me personally (except in the narrow and limited scenario where an iPhone is fixed in position in a single system and the same track of music is played at the same volume and one thing (and one thing only) in that same system is changed for an A/B comparison; in this case the recording might be able to illuminate the difference).

I just don’t see how recording the acoustic output of high-end audio systems using the ADC in an iPhone, and then playing back that low quality and low resolution digital recording through the tiny, tinny iPhone speaker, bears any high-fidelity relation to the original analog stereo sound created by a meticulously assembled stereo system with carefully positioned loudspeakers.

Why don’t we all run our expensive and perfectionistically massaged analog signals through the cheap ADC chip in our desktop computers and burn CDs and then compare the overall sounds of our different analog systems by playing the resulting CDs in our cars?

After this diatribe I do have a serious question: what is the difference in sound quality between A) a particular track played back on a vinyl front-end and captured with an acoustically-coupled telephone recording, and B) that same exact track (same performance and same recording) played back via Qobuz and heard on the same cell phone?

What is the difference in sound quality between these two playback methodologies? Which sounds better?

(I do think the videos are great for the purpose of seeing what a system looks like! )

 

[bonzo75]

No one does this in isolation. You are supposed to use the videos as accompaniment to other comments and experience. They do show some things and some not. If you go by only videos it is pointless to do complete analysis based on them.

Also, to answer your own question you will need to do the following. Take videos of systems you have experience with. Ask people you have visited like Jeff, Keith, Peter, Steve, etc to send you their videos. Then see how much the videos reflect your in room analysis. You will find in some aspects they do, in some they don't

 

[PeterA]

I think there is just a difference of opinion about the efficacy of such videos. Personally, I like them. Do I think they are the last word in representing the way someone's system actually sounds, no. Can they compliment other information, like a written listening impression, I think so. I would prefer that they are well lit so that we can actually see something. I also think there are ways to improve their quality with better mics, and good positioning. For those who think it is worth their effort to explore this, I welcome it, even though I suspect there will be some debate and unfair criticism of some of the videos and systems they portray.

Tang seems to have struck a good balance and tone with his videos. There is little to criticize.

 

[bonzo75]

I think there is just a difference of opinion about the efficacy of such videos. Personally, I like them. Do I think they are the last word in representing the way someone's system actually sounds, no. Can they compliment other information, like a written listening impression, I think so. I would prefer that they are well lit so that we can actually see something. I also think there are ways to improve their quality with better mics, and good positioning. For those who think it is worth their effort to explore this, I welcome it, even though I suspect there will be some debate and unfair criticism of some of the videos and systems they portray.

Tang seems to have struck a good balance and tone with his videos. There is little to criticize.

Completely agree. Video listening needs a maturity and experience of listening to videos, of understanding where doubt the video and where to accept it.

The reason I prefer to stick to phones is it keeps a consistency. Adding in good recorders will add another complication.

Fremer has been using analog recorded files for ages to share with his readers. Never tried them.

I agree there will be unfair criticism.

 

[KeithR]

I think most videos require the use of decent headphones, not replay on an iPhone speaker.

do you find sitting off center at a show invaluable as well?

 

[PeterA]

I just don’t see how recording the acoustic output of high-end audio systems using the ADC in an iPhone, and then playing back that low quality and low resolution digital recording through the tiny, tinny iPhone speaker, bears any high-fidelity relation to the original analog stereo sound created by a meticulously assembled stereo system with carefully positioned loudspeakers.

Ron, I have not once listened to a video I saw on YouTube or WBF back over my phone. Perhaps others do it this way, but I think most people listen through good quality headphones or at least their desk top computer speakers. iPhone speakers are terrible. Are all of your comments based on that standard?

 

[bonzo75]

Currently there are some threads running where people ask what do you think of speaker A or amp A vs B. Then they are short listing without listening. Videos are better than this. Also, if you go to hifi shows you will mostly get equipment not properly set up, and a lot of equipment that is good will not be at the show. On videos you might come across some proper set up. Neither of these approaches is going to replace listening to a well set up stuff yourself, but it is the best of the above alternatives.

 

[bonzo75]

I think most videos require the use of decent headphones, not replay on an iPhone speaker.

Agreed. I am talking about recording on the phone.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Is it a mere coincidence that the best systems at Munich 2019 (according to most people) sounded best on their respective iPhone videos? Is it a mere coincidence that Kedar’s videos of an actual live classical performance sounds real and definitely not a hifi? Does one hear a video sounding crap yet everyone there said it was fantastic?

The answers to these questions should give us a hint that vids can be useful tools for the purposes of evaluation. Be all and end all, no.

 

[asiufy]

I agree 100% with Ron.
There are too many variables to make videos a valid comparison tool, and when you add them all up, they sort of defeat the purpose of a high-end audio system. We'll still have to rely on the good ol' written word, IMHO.
Now, using a professional ADC (not a crummy one built into a phone) to convert analog to digital, and post the resulting files, for comparisons, like Fremer does, is a whole different ball game. There's no microphone or acoustics involved. The only factor affecting performance is the ADC, and that'll stay exactly the same for all the files involved in the comparison. You're really hearing system + ADC, instead of system + room acoustics + listening position + microphone + ADC... And that's considering you're playing the files/videos on a high-end system, which is not always the case...

 

[KeithR]

I agree 100% with Ron.
There are too many variables to make videos a valid comparison tool, and when you add them all up, they sort of defeat the purpose of a high-end audio system. We'll still have to rely on the good ol' written word, IMHO.

Except millennials love videos more than articles - so we need more of them to expand the hobby, flaws and all. There are some folks on Youtube that have quite decent recording setups/quality.

 

[morricab]

Is it a mere coincidence that the best systems at Munich 2019 (according to most people) sounded best on their respective iPhone videos? Is it a mere coincidence that Kedar’s videos of an actual live classical performance sounds real and definitely not a hifi? Does one hear a video sounding crap yet everyone there said it was fantastic?

The answers to these questions should give us a hint that vids can be useful tools for the purposes of evaluation. Be all and end all, no.

You can still hear some of what makes them great but you need high Rez recordings to really capture it. PM me with your email and I can send you some.

 

[asiufy]

I thought this hobby (high-end audio) was not about "decent". "Decent" recording setups are not enough to properly convey what a real audio system can do, again, IMHO.

If you want to get an idea how a piece of gear looks like, how they integrate into a room (visually), and even the famous "unboxing" videos, that I can understand the use for. For proper audio evaluation, I just can't.

 

[cjfrbw]

I opened a thread querying members about the Stereophile binaural recordings they have been making at shows with binaural headseats. John Atkinson uses a special Sennheiser headphone setup.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ces-first-2-binaural-video-reports

That thread can be merged here, I suppose. I find the Stereophile binaural recordings interesting, but others can listen with high quality headphones and see what they think. There is a list of them with different reviewers at the Stereophile web site.

 

[NorthStar]

It is impossible for most of us to fly to Bangkok, to Italy, to Spain, to Greece, to Indonesia, to Germany, to Portugal, to France, to Russia, to Philippines, to French Polynesia, to Hawaii, to Brazil, to Argentina, to Africa, to Sweeden, to Finland, to Switzerland, to Jakarta, to Dubai, to Kathmandu, to Morocco. So I do appreciate music videos shared by members spinning music I discover and get a sense of their spiritual music atmosphere.

Tango is not a professional recording music engineer and first rate filmmaker, but he's extraordinary with his conveyance. That is good food for my brain. And I save money from flying across the seas.

I appreciate the effort and passion from people like Tango. There are others like him who do a passionate effort in their music videos for most people who can't afford flying intercontinental.
I'd rather listen to them than not, I gain much more from them.

Pictures are nice, I love photos, of everything, beautiful homes, gardens, stereo systems, big speakers with shiny wood veneer, racing car colors, diamond turntables, ...
They don't play music those pictures. I don't know what music genre they like to listen to because not everyone mention the music recordings they spin.
The music recordings are what I gain much more than ultra high end pictures of hi-fi stereos.
I love pictures, I love music more.

So those homemade YouTube music videos from members and audio dealers and reviewers of all venues and content they make me closer to auditory contentment in complementing the pretty pictures.
If I could fly the skies and sail the seas intercontinentally I would; short of that I listen to the music shared by people millions miles away @ home. I plug my ears to my sound audio hi-fi stereo system and I fly and sail all the way to contentment.

Thank you Tango and others who share and understand the true power of music.

 

[ack]

Agree 100% with the OP. In fact, I've been building my system for decades so I can shoot and share poor videos of it.

But all fun aside, the one video I have made and posted years ago was actually focused on the AUDIENCE and their reactions, in this case one of our neighbors.

 

[KeithR]

I thought this hobby (high-end audio) was not about "decent". "Decent" recording setups are not enough to properly convey what a real audio system can do, again, IMHO.

Here is one of the "decent" setups:

I can also go to Jana's videos (Earspace) and easily tell tonality from her binaural recordings among several other criteria. No, its not an audition substitute but, hey, alot of people can't audition stuff locally. So they rely on forums and now videos to educate themselves.

I don't understand how expanding this hobby via videos is a negative. That's why several hifi retailers have opened up YouTube channels in the past year or two. That's what every other luxury hobby is doing as well - see Hodinkee or WatchBox Studios. This hobby continues to revolve around senior citizens - I loved that THE Show was still passing out magazines and brochures. Lol.

 

[NorthStar]

Keith, that is awesome man, thank's a bunch for sharing.

 

[asiufy]

As I said, videos per se are not a wrong, using them for performance judgments is.
So if people can't audition locally, your solution to this problem is to use videos instead? How about fostering local dealers, so more would exist, and not less?
You don't buy a watch for its intrinsic performance, do you? Thus seeing a nice unboxing video of a watch is perfectly fine to establish whether you'll be remotely interested in it or not, and then procure it.
How does that relate to a hobby where people (supposedly) buy product because of how they SOUND? Forcing the product's sound performance through several lossy/additive steps doesn't sound coherent to me, as I said before, it defeats the purpose of this whole hobby.

 

[NorthStar]

I judge nothing, I enjoy everything.

My hi-end local audio dealers are very few and I like here better.
I have to drive half hour to get there and it's hot like hell.
Their rooms are not up to high standards that fit with accurate music sound reproduction.

It's more for fun than serious fun. We judge none, we enjoy or we don't.

Keith's above post with that video, that I like, very much.