I had my monitors stand on concrete tiles (garden tiles) from Home Depot, 16' by 16'. Kills wood floor resonances and improves sound. Cost $5 each. Admittedly not aesthetically the most pleasing solution. You can buy small carpets to put the concrete tiles on, so that the wood floor is not scratched. Herbie's Audio Lab round footers between stands and speakers (may also improve the sound).
Speakers isolation from resonance and angry neighbours — Critical Mass Center, Revopods, EVP.
- Thread starter Ricco275
- Start date
I had my monitors stand on concrete tiles (garden tiles) from Home Depot, 16' by 16'. Kills wood floor resonances and improves sound. Cost $5 each. Admittedly not aesthetically the most pleasing solution. You can buy small carpets to put the concrete tiles on, so that the wood floor is not scratched. Herbie's Audio Lab round footers between stands and speakers (may also improve the sound).
Yes. The impact resistance is most likely not there to much a degree (maybe no damper is there ieither or crappy) and the floor is now more of a boom chamber basically. We can see that the tiles Are shrinking in the edges and gaps Are getting visible.
For the long run and basically total cost of project - Get happy neighbour and play music unhindered…
I think what @DasguteOhr is saying and I agree, assuming…
The floor and the (fireplace) should be a priority in the long run. So… the system should be packed down And these two matters dealt with.
Then footers dampers and what have you would have a much better chance of getting their worth.
Close of the Fireplace better. Try the sandbox first…
It is cheapest… but redoing the floor in the long run….I’d think about it…
Yeah, that is up to you.
How much for a profesjonal assesment ? There must be companies in Paris that Are well capable. And guide in refurnishing anything structural.
I'm much more for a hands on help here. A lot of us have built houses, laid floors, refurbished houses and maybe acoustically isolated them also, maybe even going back 25 years or more doing so. And as you do that you notice that long term use of the project and feedback makes so that you refine you methods and maybe discover errors you did - and some get better at it, some never learn.
Now, this kind of expertice... getting it right, and feedback is that it is done right. It is always worth it in the long run.
BUT, getting there... hands on, a person on site, that has seen 500 rooms, and knows what he is looking at. Preferrable, rather than online advice.
Just lifting the tiles, getting things level and a Good impact damper mat. The on with the tiles…
What is the price of that versus alternative.
So, how is the DIY skill level. Comes down to that and or friends and family. Whats the available know how.
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my DIY skills are limited to build an hifi rack with 3 Ikea Lack tables.... I'm renting, so I'd prefer not investing in refurbishing the room for acoustic. Will try to find experts in town and get an assessment. The sandbox may look messy to my wife's eyes. She's the boss obviously.
Yes. Ok.
That limits things.
In Paris there is a company called General acoustics - Paris branch
Paris office
159, rue La Fayette75010 PARIS
Fabien Gouel
phone +33(0)1 48 03 03 40
mail paris@general-acoustics.fr
So.. the theory is that ask close to home.
If they cannot help, or cost to much, they could know of someone else, who knows their shit.
The above it just an example... I know nothing about them.. but just ask someone first... just start..
But yes... Acoustics AND HVAC should be what anyone needs experience with... and those you should ask..
Also… wife might go along with advice from such a person ( who actually is in room, and with pretty name badge
rather than anything we suggest…How to sell it as They say…
And it will show that you do what you can on your part, to make as many happy as is possible.
You said that any solution might be a tough sell.
So, sales pitch then… He suggests a solution.
He tells you what he can detect of issues. Hopefully he adress what we on the forum thinks wee csn see, but it might be completely different from what we think…
You mention products you have heard of. Maybe the Expert has used them already.
The nod… you nod, the Expert nods. You both look at your wife. And you both nod.
You wait for the smile…
WHEN presented with alternatives in said fashion.
Options that normally can not be chosen - suddenly can. The alternatives laid bare.
And price of things.
Smarts is also a tweak. It may not be dirt cheap.
But. An alternative it is and hopefully a solution enhancer…
So, truth - we Are not saying this as a cheat but as a door opener … a solution might be close but is it a nod away?
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Eventually I have purchased some EVP from Norman. I can confirm they have significantly improved my situation. I’m not sure if they have taken away some details or soul. I can’t be bothered to A B. Happy (er).
Norman Varney's EVP's from A/V RoomService, Ltd., have rapidly become my preferred vibration isolation system for my source components and amplifiers. Deeper soundstage, more articulate presentation of instruments and voices, improved "continuousness" rendering a more complete delivery of the volume of information contained in the source material. I've used many isolation products over the years and these are the most consistent in their performance
la victoire appartient à celui qui n'a pas abandonné / mousse de sorbotane... la vérité en effet
Aka no spikes…
Awesome job @Ricco275 !
This also begs the question…
WHEN do you actually diode or spike a product….?
Only when you want to add a harmonic or when you want to alter a harmonic component..,
Also, when is this most usefull?
In My opinion, never…
Aka no spikes…
Awesome job @Ricco275 !
This also begs the question…
WHEN do you actually diode or spike a product….?
Only when you want to add a harmonic or when you want to alter a harmonic component..,
Also, when is this most usefull?
In My opinion, never…
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I fear that upstairs neighbours won't be placated whatever you put under your speakers. Yes, downstairs neighbours' difficulties can be dealt with to a certain extent, but upstairs is a different matter.
I believe your only practical solutions are to reduce the volume or to reduce the bass level. I'm fortunate in that my amplifier has very useful features that help me attenuate bass at late hours if I want to play loudly. I can use Settings to introduce Tone Controls where the bass can be lowered, but much more effective (and with much less harm to the apparent quality of the music) is to tell my amp that it has subs connected to its preamp outs. I can select a crossover frequency from 40 to 200 Hz, so a steep cut off can be achieved by a single switch within Settings. With a 50 or 60 Hz XO, the main speakers are denied very low frequencies and the volume can be restored without upsetting neighbours. For most music the enjoyment factor is preserved despite the wall-shaking bass being missing.
Jim Smith is indeed the expert (I just wish he was UK-based) but is, I understand semi-retired now. Still worth contacting him if system tuning / setting up is what you're looking for.
Lucky you. Anyway my system is not too strong on bass. The EVP help a lot. I’ll enjoy more when I’ll move to another apartment….
It's a real pain if you have a music-averse neighbour who feels the need to complain. I guess your apartment is a conversion from a single house or a purpose-built apartment of ancient construction, as otherwise Building Regs would insist on pretty good sound-proofing between floors. I hope you find somewhere more suitable soon.
I've always fancied a duplex penthouse with the living room at the higher level, so there's no one above me and I have full control over the floor below! At present, I'm on a 19th floor, but luckily the 20th floor is very rarely occupied (major airline CEO) and floors are well insulated. Main speakers are on IsoAcoustic Gaias (these help and also improve sound) and hopefully the newly installed subs will go unnoticed by the downstairs neighbours!
That is an awfully close placement of the loudspeakers... Also, they should like 2m furter back...
Have you tried them further apart, say one meter or more? This has to make for a somewhat weak midbass?
Being in the UK, and having NAD Terry Ellis is a rather good chap with setting up Dirac Live seeing as NAD has that option
Also, that is an amazing listening space, but you have the speakers placed wrong... I mean, ok if you like the sound, but that is not ideal...
Ok, so if I undestand the dimezsions of this giga pad correct you have placed you loudspeakers in the dead centerline of it. You absolutely never should do that...you are accentuating and nulling maximally all the room nodes...
You have weak midbass, "'R" "S" and "D!" sound strangely louder than other sounds (on vocal tracks) and there is no "F" sounds that have power...
correct?
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No, I'm sorry to say you are wrong on just about all accounts!That is an awfully close placement of the loudspeakers... Also, they should like 2m furter back...
Have you tried them further apart, say one meter or more? This has to make for a somewhat weak midbass?
Being in the UK, and having NAD Terry Ellis is a rather good chap with setting up Dirac Live seeing as NAD has that option
Also, that is an amazing listening space, but you have the speakers placed wrong... I mean, ok if you like the sound, but that is not ideal...
Ok, so if I undestand the dimezsions of this giga pad correct you have placed you loudspeakers in the dead centerline of it. You absolutely never should do that...you are accentuating and nulling maximally all the room nodes...
You have weak midbass, "'R" "S" and "D!" sound strangely louder than other sounds (on vocal tracks) and there is no "F" sounds that have power...
correct?
Perhaps the room plan below will address some of your misconceptions of the room dimensions and placement of the speakers. Rest assured that I suffer none of the problems you suggest and also I can tell you that engaging a Dirac Live filter actually reduces the sound quality at the listening position. In particular (despite the fact that the version of DL supplied with my amp ADJUSTS only sub 500 Hz), engaging a filter results in a slight loss of top end sparkle. A clue to the reason, I've concluded, is suggested by the initials DSP - Digital Signal Processing - and I am a believer that the less a signal is processed, the less damage will result in its travel from source to ear.
Remember that these are horn speakers that are very directional and almost immune to the proximity to adjacent side or rear walls or the floor-to-ceiling glazing behind them. This all makes horns ideal (if one excludes omnis) for my room. Since moving to this new build flat, when acoustics were initially dire, the addition of partial carpeting, curtains and additional soft furnishings have hugely improved acoustics, though certainly not perfect.
I'd value your comments.
Yes, would you look at that! That is the most unusual listeningspace I have ever seen. I assumed it was round all the way.
Like a tuna can squished slightly and cut down the middle, and one half of that is then the room.
So, back some 25 years I visited an Island in Norway, it is called Munkholmen.
And it has a unusual building for gun powder kegs storage used for the fortress installed there. Built
Round and and with a flattish vaulted hemispherical ceiling.
You can see that grey round tower there..
Inside it is this chamber. (Built around 1660.)
Acoustically it is quite the experience.
The tour guide stand in the middle and talks, and all the visitors must stand upp against the round wall (in a circle like the head must almost touch the wall behind you, or there is no sound..)) to hear what is being said.
Any other place and it is like all sound is cancelled out. Weird stuff.
So I and a friend of mine were there, this is like 1997 or 8 and after the group moved on we went back to the chamber and We tried to sing in it.
We tried both to stand in the middle, and also along the walls. There was a awesome reverb but different depending if in the middle or along the round walls.
And we noticed that the reverb would change based upon the height we had so like sitt down or stand up, both places.
So your room is like a slice of this but laid on the side flat 90 degrees.
Your speakers are where the person would stand in the middle (of the fortress) and you listening position is along the round (but for you half cut hemisphere) wall.
Actually you sit a bit forward of the wall in your setup.
In your room there is a v section, a corner behind the sofa. Have you ever tried to angle the speakers so the plane of them look at this corner directly and sit in that corner?
At least that is all I can think of because the gun powder chamber sounded best there...
Anyway, my apologies for assuming layout before knowing. And my experience most likely is not transferable from the Chamber to you space.
Funny enough there are almost zero pictures of the inside of this chamber online, I can Imagine because it is a haunting and beautiful experience and everyone just forgets to take pictures. I did.
We sung Amazing Grace by the way, acapella, two different melodic lines simultaniously and to this day, I can vividly recall it, it was stunning.
Like a tuna can squished slightly and cut down the middle, and one half of that is then the room.
So, back some 25 years I visited an Island in Norway, it is called Munkholmen.
And it has a unusual building for gun powder kegs storage used for the fortress installed there. Built
Round and and with a flattish vaulted hemispherical ceiling.
You can see that grey round tower there..
Inside it is this chamber. (Built around 1660.)
Acoustically it is quite the experience.
The tour guide stand in the middle and talks, and all the visitors must stand upp against the round wall (in a circle like the head must almost touch the wall behind you, or there is no sound..)) to hear what is being said.
Any other place and it is like all sound is cancelled out. Weird stuff.
So I and a friend of mine were there, this is like 1997 or 8 and after the group moved on we went back to the chamber and We tried to sing in it.
We tried both to stand in the middle, and also along the walls. There was a awesome reverb but different depending if in the middle or along the round walls.
And we noticed that the reverb would change based upon the height we had so like sitt down or stand up, both places.
So your room is like a slice of this but laid on the side flat 90 degrees.
Your speakers are where the person would stand in the middle (of the fortress) and you listening position is along the round (but for you half cut hemisphere) wall.
Actually you sit a bit forward of the wall in your setup.
In your room there is a v section, a corner behind the sofa. Have you ever tried to angle the speakers so the plane of them look at this corner directly and sit in that corner?
At least that is all I can think of because the gun powder chamber sounded best there...
Anyway, my apologies for assuming layout before knowing. And my experience most likely is not transferable from the Chamber to you space.
Funny enough there are almost zero pictures of the inside of this chamber online, I can Imagine because it is a haunting and beautiful experience and everyone just forgets to take pictures. I did.
We sung Amazing Grace by the way, acapella, two different melodic lines simultaniously and to this day, I can vividly recall it, it was stunning.
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Your description of the acoustic effect in that building matches the experience of visitors to the "Whispering Gallery" at London's St Paul's Cathedral. Sound around such a circular gallery travels in an extraordinary way and a whisper can he clearly heard many meters away if the ear is correctly placed.
Unveiling the Secrets of the Whispering Gallery at St. Paul's Cathedral
Discover the fascinating history and unique acoustic properties of St. Paul's Cathedral's famous Whispering Gallery. From its stunning artwork and architecture to the legends and stories associated with it, explore this iconic attraction and experience the awe-inspiring views of the cathedral's...
www.stpaulscathedral.uk
For a nice spacious home where the music volume could never upset neighbours, how about Spitbank Fort?
Located in the Solent between the mainland and the Isle of Wight, it's only a mile or so from my present flat - and recently sold for "just" £1.2 million, after £2.6 million was spent recently on conversion to a 9 suite 33,000 sq ft boutique retreat. Rather more difficult to to get to or from the shops than my flat, but weather permitting, quite doable! Maybe I should have grabbed it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitbank_Fort and lots of Youtube videos
What is your favourite song in your current space?
The one that tells you that the money was indeed well spent?
Because as I see it. We all have that one favourite, and it HAS to serve that one up perfect...
Going back like 30 years, mine was like "sledge hammer" by Peter Gabriel, and it continues to be my "need indeed" ..
Tony Levin and that wonderfull fretless bass...
You know the panflute start is a sample from "Shakuhachi flute from the Emulator II sampler sound library"
Other than that it is Pink Floyd ‘High Hopes’ that I firmly believe is the recorded music historys best mastered and balanced soundtrack ever..,
And should always be used, as a rule..
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