How Do You Think About Cost/Benefit Analysis for Your System?

Lee said:

I can see the transformer six feet away from my listening room window. Does that count?

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I have at times wondered if my amps up near my back wall might not be more susceptible to bass modes impacting the tubes? Who knows. I know the crossover on my stands caused a notable smear. Once they were put on stands behind the speaker, the sound was much more clean.

Boy did this thread ever head off the rails.

Kingrex said:

Now take a look how Rigid Rack lands the shelves on the uprights.

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Yes, that is my one concern with these. My brother-in-law who is hobbyist but incredible woodworker pointed this out. He said he could figure out some additional bracing for it if I got it. I'd love to have him make my rack, but the cost (he is a perfectionist and uses only the best materials) and the resulting family energy indebtedness I'd accrue are well out of scope He also said that the price of the RigidRack is actually good value when you add up the wood, manufacture, finish and shipping.

Tangram said:

Boy did this thread ever head off the rails.

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Why, we are talking about things we think are high value for the cost. I'm talking 3 shelf racks 50 inch wide that cost $2000. Other people may spend $12,000 on the same size rack. What is the gain for $10,000 additional.out of your pocket. I don't know. I have never listened.

Tuckers said:

Yes, that is my one concern with these. My brother-in-law who is hobbyist but incredible woodworker pointed this out. He said he could figure out some additional bracing for it if I got it. I'd love to have him make my rack, but the cost (he is a perfectionist and uses only the best materials) and the resulting family energy indebtedness I'd accrue are well out of scope He also said that the price of the RigidRack is actually good value when you add up the wood, manufacture, finish and shipping.

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Yes ageed. Look, it comes in pieces. There is no reason a good carpenter couldn't put the stand together. Get it level, then scribe cut lines, take it apart, then notch the legs and recess the shelves. All you loose is maybe 1.5 inch shelf width. It would take a sharp detail saw and skilled hands with a chisel to pull it off.

You might ask Ridge Rack.if they can do it. I bet he woulf for an additional $500.

Never really thought about it at a system level. I would evaluate changes as "was it worth it" but that's about it.

As far ratting against the SOTA??

Who defines what that is??? All I care about is if I am happy with what I am hearing.

If yes all is good!

Rob

I myself have quite a bit of vintage equipment that has been refurbished and heavily modified. Plus additional pieces to bring in the system to our digital age. I have spent a decent amount on everything.

I certainly know some have spent far less and a few way far more. I will say overall I have reached a point of happiness. Though a few more mods/and or updates are still on my list to be done.

Robh3606 said:

Never really thought about it at a system level. I would evaluate changes as "was it worth it" but that's about it.

As far ratting against the SOTA??

Who defines what that is??? All I care about is if I am happy with what I am hearing.

If yes all is good!

Rob

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That's how I define the quality of a system because that is all that matters.

Cost benefit analysis is hard...

My system has a 25 year old turntable and a very heavily tweaked pre amp and power amp. The pre amp in particular bears no relation to what it was as it has a different power supply and loads of Shinkoh and Caddock resistors as well as different caps. I spent a lot on it.
The speakers are what, 15 years old? My point is that my system probably counts as mostly vintage not "up to date".
But am I happy with my system? Pretty much yes. Is it an assault on the state of the art? Hell no.

Cost benefit: The problem is that how I would score it varies from day to day... Most of the time I would score harshly & say its a 7/10 on my arbitrary scale. Last night, playing James Brown on the right pressing at the right volume with the lights off and the system warmed up*, it was a 9.75. U n b e l i e v a b l y good. Tomorrow WILL be different.
(*Jeez, is all this hassle worth it? I don't want to always spend 2 or 3 hours preparing, to fumble around in the dark to listen to 30 minutes of music at an unsociable hour. Better spend more money to fix that )

Could I improve the system and what do I think I would "need" to spend on it? Yes I could and right now, today, I would need to spend about £2k. Tomorrow I WILL think different. Its easier to buy better pressings of records....

"Tweaks", i.e stuff other than the components themselves, have made a huge and transformative difference, so I believe they are always worth exploring. Some have been and are free some are more spendy. Having just spent too much money on a new music room I am still experimenting with system set up and speaker placement. There are free improvements to be had there.

What have I spent on it? Lets leave that at too much...

Where does this leave me? Forget all the above over analysis crap. Philosophically, my system and my music makes me happy. It transports me somewhere else and means I can forget the variable cares of the world at any time of day. As such its priceless and worth every penny of the too much I have spent on it.

Ron Resnick said:

Where on the cost/benefit scale are you targeting for your system and expenditure?

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IMO state of the art is now in my price range and as such state of the art is my focus.

I don’t think state of the art is a function of price. But I wouldn’t say it’s cheap either.

Chop said:

Where does this leave me? Forget all the above over analysis crap. Philosophically, my system and my music makes me happy. It transports me somewhere else and means I can forget the variable cares of the world at any time of day. As such its priceless and worth every penny of the too much I have spent on it.

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That sums it up for me as well. I always get a 10 out of 10 experience when I sit down and listen to some music, and if I don’t, I listen to something else. I don’t even know what “state of the art” is. A system that may be wonderful in one person’s house may be disastrous in another, because the room might be 1/10th the size and the person has different musical tastes.

i’ve been to enough demonstrations of ultra expensive hifi to know that one person’s state of the art is another person’s nightmare.

Cost benefit is irrelevant to me. I spend what I think is reasonable and sensible. After having had a product at home loan, it’s usually an easy decision. Sometimes I think what else I could spend the money on, but not often.

ssfas said:

That sums it up for me as well. I always get a 10 out of 10 experience when I sit down and listen to some music, and if I don’t, I listen to something else. I don’t even know what “state of the art” is. A system that may be wonderful in one person’s house may be disastrous in another, because the room might be 1/10th the size and the person has different musical tastes.

i’ve been to enough demonstrations of ultra expensive hifi to know that one person’s state of the art is another person’s nightmare.

Cost benefit is irrelevant to me. I spend what I think is reasonable and sensible. After having had a product at home loan, it’s usually an easy decision. Sometimes I think what else I could spend the money on, but not often.

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When it comes to the state of the art the room is a part of the system

Analog Scott said:

When it comes to the state of the art the room is a part of the system

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I have a dedicated room. It works for me.

ssfas said:

I have a dedicated room. It works for me.

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Dedicated rooms generally offer the advantage of *allowing* one to possibly create a state of the art speaker/room system. But a dedicated room is at best a starting point not the finish line

Depends - currently, I think my system is as far as I intend to go . Who knows....I've always liked to play around with software since my system uses the PC as its main source. I've added the Bacch VST to my system, and they've improved on it from when I initially purchased it (yay upgrades). Unless I get the itch to make everything McIntosh and Legacy - I don't see myself moving very much.

"Cost-benefit analysis" has driven assembly of my system which is now mature. By "mature" I mean that I am off of the upgrade "merry-go-round" when it comes to components. Catastrophic (non-repairable) failure is the only thing that would induce me to invest in a new source, amplification, or speakers. "Cost-benefit analysis" underlies my strategy for system assembly over the years, which is to use modification of very good high performing, (relatively) high value gear (most purchased used or demo) to get it to the level of "great". This approach has worked and I am enjoying end game level sound quality for my room size. The 2nd part of my strategy, experimenting with cables, accessories, and tweaks to optimize component synergy and system performance has also worked. Here also I have established rules for myself to limit cost. Almost all of the cables and accessories in my system I bought used or demo. And while I continually experiment with tweaks I only keep the ones that make a clear audible improvement that I can hear, my wife (who couldn't tell you what gear I have) can hear, and that a select group of audiophile friends/club members can also hear. Everything I try that doesn't meet this test I sell. I've also set cost ceilings for categories of accessories/tweaks for myself - e.g., I will not spend more than $200 for a fuse which rules out upper tier QSA for example. Very satisfied with my system/dedicated listening room, and would be happy for the rest of my days if I didn't change another think. Further experimenting is for the fun of it, not to mitigate deficiencies. Numerical ratings: At least a 9 on performance in the important audiophile parameters compared to anything else I've heard that would fit in my room; 10 out of 10 for musical enjoyment; off the chart in value for the $.

Hobby astronomers often get infected with aperture fever. It causes the infected astronomer to dream of a bigger telescope with more aperture than the ones he already has. This is known to cause serious psychological damage and can seldom be cured, so it is advisable to let the infected person buy yet another (bigger) telescope.

Many Hi-Fi enthusiasts are infected by similar fevers. Resolution fever, soundstage fever, midrange fever, … to name just a few. I personally have an active case of Gryphon fever. Their new Commander is currently the only available cure.

"I got a FEVER...........and only cure...is more COWbell!"

I’m responding to an old post but I wrestle with this every week. My age, room in my place, money and an undetermined life span, what makes sense, etc. Difficult choices and questions. Let’s just say that I am happy with my equipment. Recently I purchased a number of Shun Mook footers and Mpingo discs and loving them. What would I replace in the equipment chain? My streamer? My phono stage? But to what end? Expensive upgrades and for how much improvement? Questions questions questions.

Cost benefit- in some ways 9 out of 10 (pre, amp, DAC, speakers), other ways not so good (flea watt amp and speakers, SPU sidetrack, Corralstone D, VHD Gran Cru….).